Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 9:49:54 GMT
No we should never be afraid to however,many people will not due to the abuse they receive from many sources. Look at the vitriol JK Rowling has received and that many speakers with different views are cancelled from University forums,I don't agree with them but I defend there right to speak. I don't believe it's about intelligence either it's about reinforcement of beliefs. Agreed. And i m h o, if Douglas Murray is to be silenced for hate speech, then freedom of speech really is in trouble. No no, done silence. He is comedy gold.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 9:50:03 GMT
There you go again. It`s becoming a habit, gas365. Coming on here writing sense. For God`s sake, get yourself a nice thick rope, and go out and pull down a statue of Alfred the Great. Or someone. Anyone. Quick question then. Are we to be afraid of expressing our views for fear of manipulation by some fascist foreign government? Taking that forward how unintelligent do you have to be to believe everything you read, listen to, on the internet without checking from differing sources? Well no, you shouldn't believe everything you read, you should look for differing opinions and look to see which opinion is yielding results. To take this thread back to the start, one side is painting the US black community as victims who require that solutions be foisted upon them, but there is another view, and it's articulated brilliantly by Jason Riley. It shouldn't make any difference, but he's a black man, and he's American, he says that the Obama years were a disaster for the black community in general, unhelpful policies everywhere. But don't take my word for it, find any of his talks on line, titles such as 'Please stop helping us' 'Liberals make it harder for blacks to succeed' 'Black Americans failed by good intentions'. In fact, here you go, the 'good intentions one is a nice little video, 20 minutes that cover a lot of ground, including something I've asked you about repeatedly, this thing about equality of opportunity, which I'm all for, Vs equality of outcome, which is what's often being argued for now and is manifested in 'affirmative actions' such as all female short lists. Mr Riley mentions a US college and what happened there when this 'affirmative action' was ceased, it's not the outcome you expect, that's a single institution example of the Scandinavian experiments I've mentioned to you multiple times but you've never confirmed that you've taken the time to research for yourself. I can't find a single fault with Mr Riley's position, if you can demonstrate that anything he's saying is incorrect then please let me know. BTW, you won't be surprised to hear, for daring to go against the madding crowd, he gets de-platformed continually across America. And on that subject, you can't speak at Oxford today unless you agree to sign their student charter, so it's basically, say what we want or we don't want to hear from you. Remind you, maybe just a tiny bit, of the attitude of someone a little closer to home? Here's Mr Riley, enjoy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 9:50:37 GMT
Got to admit, you`re starting to remind me of Rick from The Young Ones. Everything was, "the fascists." 😜😜🤔
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 10:04:05 GMT
This was an excellent 3 part series, exploring the afro Carribbean people's history and their life in the UK. g.co/kgs/PYsF3h
|
|
|
Post by William Wilson on Jul 8, 2020 10:11:06 GMT
No we should never be afraid to however,many people will not due to the abuse they receive from many sources. Look at the vitriol JK Rowling has received and that many speakers with different views are cancelled from University forums,I don't agree with them but I defend there right to speak. I don't believe it's about intelligence either it's about reinforcement of beliefs. Completely agree Clive. I have, personally, never subscribed to the idea that anyone should be barred, banned or threatened because of their views. Challenged, rebutted even ridiculed, absolutely. I am a great believer that allowing views to be exposed to the sunshine of debate they quickly expose themselves to be ridiculous, ignorant or ultimately malign. Look at the examples of Farage, Trump, Nick Griffin. In time exposure will catch and burn groups like the European Research Group under the farcical leadership of Rees-Mogg. As Corbyn was and as Momentum lie in ashes. You`ll be quoting Shelley* next. Ozymandias. Griffin and Corbyn, I agree with you. Their views, when exposed to the sunshine of debate got them nowhere. Not so sure about Farage and Trump. Farage`s views pretty much single handedly got the UK out of the EU. And Trump`s views got him elected president of the United States. The problem with words such as ridiculous, ignorant or malign, is that, like beauty, they`re in the eye of the beholder. * The poet. Not the layabout from the BBC television series.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 10:12:24 GMT
Of course normal people are going to resist being told that they hold biased opinions and don't even realise it and need educating. More madness from the rabid left. This isn't how you achieve consensus, it's how you create division. Speaking of which I was reading a book on Russian spycraft since the end of the Cold War and it appears that all this woke nonsense is bread from heaven for Putin - his twitter troll farms are all over social justice causes like Black lives matter as a form of sowing division in the ranks of his enemies (as they are amplifying the views of the extreme right too). The fringes of the left and right are where Putin does his best work. Another thing to think about when falling for the emotive views at the extremes of each side of the political spectrum. Seeing as you have bought this up, does your book say which other nation states are partaking in troll farm psyops, or is just 'our enemies'?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 10:18:55 GMT
Completely agree Clive. I have, personally, never subscribed to the idea that anyone should be barred, banned or threatened because of their views. Challenged, rebutted even ridiculed, absolutely. I am a great believer that allowing views to be exposed to the sunshine of debate they quickly expose themselves to be ridiculous, ignorant or ultimately malign. Look at the examples of Farage, Trump, Nick Griffin. In time exposure will catch and burn groups like the European Research Group under the farcical leadership of Rees-Mogg. As Corbyn was and as Momentum lie in ashes. You`ll be quoting Shelley next. Ozymandias. Griffin and Corbyn, I agree with you. Their views, when exposed to the sunshine of debate got them nowhere. Not so sure about Farage and Trump. Farage`s views pretty much single handedly got the UK out of the EU. And Trump`s views got him elected president of the United States. The problem with words such as ridiculous, ignorant or malign, is that, like beauty, they`re in the eye of the beholder. Absolutely in the eye of the beholder,as it should be. But here is the rub, do you stick to the belief that something is "beautiful" when all the overwhelming evidence is that it is not, or do you admit the mistake and come to an evidenced based conclusion? What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by William Wilson on Jul 8, 2020 10:43:44 GMT
You`ll be quoting Shelley next. Ozymandias. Griffin and Corbyn, I agree with you. Their views, when exposed to the sunshine of debate got them nowhere. Not so sure about Farage and Trump. Farage`s views pretty much single handedly got the UK out of the EU. And Trump`s views got him elected president of the United States. The problem with words such as ridiculous, ignorant or malign, is that, like beauty, they`re in the eye of the beholder. Absolutely in the eye of the beholder,as it should be. But here is the rub, do you stick to the belief that something is "beautiful" when all the overwhelming evidence is that it is not, or do you admit the mistake and come to an evidenced based conclusion? What do you think? Well, what a smorgasbord of literacy we`re enjoying this morning. We`ve already had Mr Jung`s "Madding crowd " and now you`re chucking in some Hamlet, " there`s the rub ". What you`ve written above obviously makes sense on a superficial level, but people see things differently. What some people might judge success, others might not. What some people might judge failure, others might not. What some people might see as a mistake, others might not. Even evidence based conclusions, can be argued over. My head swam listening to people presenting evidence that the UK would be better/worse off if we voted Brexit. And people behave and vote as THEY see things. I though diversity was something to be aspired to. Not when it comes to opinions apparently. Not these days.
|
|
|
Post by William Wilson on Jul 8, 2020 10:48:21 GMT
Agreed. And i m h o, if Douglas Murray is to be silenced for hate speech, then freedom of speech really is in trouble. No no, done silence. He is comedy gold. He`s an intelligent and thoughtful individual. Your remark does you no credit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 10:49:47 GMT
Absolutely in the eye of the beholder,as it should be. But here is the rub, do you stick to the belief that something is "beautiful" when all the overwhelming evidence is that it is not, or do you admit the mistake and come to an evidenced based conclusion? What do you think? Well, what a smorgasbord of literacy we`re enjoying this morning. We`ve already had Mr Jung`s "Madding crowd " and now you`re chucking in some Hamlet, " there`s the rub ". What you`ve written above obviously makes sense on a superficial level, but people see things differently. What some people might judge success, others might not. What some people might judge failure, others might not. What some people might see as a mistake, others might not. Even evidenced based conclusions, can be argued over. My head swam listening to people presenting evidence that the UK would be better/worse off if we voted Brexit. And people behave and vote as THEY see things. I though diversity was something to be aspired to. Not when it comes to opinions apparently. Not these days. That reads to me as an attempt to explain not deciding upon a position and without the courage to back any position actually taken with evidence. Surely it doesn't matter what others think as long as you can back your position with empirical evidence? Otherwise it's an opinion that floats like a feather in the wind.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 10:53:25 GMT
No no, done silence. He is comedy gold. He`s an intelligent and thoughtful individual. Your remark does you no credit. I respect your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. Free to remark as I choose. Without fear of attack on my character (Which, in my case, is de rigueur on here in the absence of substantiated debate).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 11:40:06 GMT
No we should never be afraid to however,many people will not due to the abuse they receive from many sources. Look at the vitriol JK Rowling has received and that many speakers with different views are cancelled from University forums,I don't agree with them but I defend there right to speak. I don't believe it's about intelligence either it's about reinforcement of beliefs. Agreed. And i m h o, if Douglas Murray is to be silenced for hate speech, then freedom of speech really is in trouble. There's some push back today to this dangerous behaviour from extremists who want to silence any dissenting voice. Headed by that well known fascist bigot that trevor mentions above, J K Rowling. I think her books are garbage, but she's right about this.
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jul 8, 2020 11:48:14 GMT
I personally think, that if the US wants to get to grips with all of this, they should have more guns.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 11:53:31 GMT
I personally think, that if the US wants to get to grips with all of this, they should have more guns. Everybody already has one in each hand! Maybe lasers, attached to their freaking heads?
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jul 8, 2020 11:54:49 GMT
I personally think, that if the US wants to get to grips with all of this, they should have more guns. Everybody already has one in each hand! Maybe lasers, attached to their freaking heads? Ooh, lasers, available at Walmart? To anyone? Now you're talking.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 11:57:35 GMT
Everybody already has one in each hand! Maybe lasers, attached to their freaking heads? Ooh, lasers, available at Walmart? To anyone? Now you're talking. You've spent hours watching 'People of Wallmart' videos on YouTube as well eh? Makes our Chav culture look rather refined and dignified.
|
|
|
Post by baggins on Jul 8, 2020 12:00:04 GMT
Ooh, lasers, available at Walmart? To anyone? Now you're talking. You've spent hours watching 'People of Wallmart' videos on YouTube as well eh? Makes our Chav culture look rather refined and dignified. Ever played guess if man, woman or something else? They really are a breed apart over there aren't they?
|
|
|
Post by matealotblue on Jul 8, 2020 12:04:26 GMT
Agreed. And i m h o, if Douglas Murray is to be silenced for hate speech, then freedom of speech really is in trouble. There's some push back today to this dangerous behaviour from extremists who want to silence any dissenting voice. Headed by that well known fascist bigot that trevor mentions above, J K Rowling. I think her books are garbage, but she's right about this. Cancel the “cancel culture”.......
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 12:08:22 GMT
You've spent hours watching 'People of Wallmart' videos on YouTube as well eh? Makes our Chav culture look rather refined and dignified. Ever played guess if man, woman or something else? They really are a breed apart over there aren't they? Steady, we'll get de-platformed. To be serious about what you see in those videos, it's a comment on society, anger / aggression isn't far beneath the surface for a lot of people. I'm not suggesting that's in any way unique to America, but what a way to live, it must be horribly stressful. There's one I saw a year or so ago where 2 Ladies got into a dispute about some goods on a shelf, one of them had children with her, I'm guessing the girl was maybe 10, and a boy a couple of years younger, it ended up as a physical fight between the women, you heard the girl say to the boy, Mommy is fighting again. That's their life. I could have cried for them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 12:20:10 GMT
There you go again. It`s becoming a habit, gas365. Coming on here writing sense. For God`s sake, get yourself a nice thick rope, and go out and pull down a statue of Alfred the Great. Or someone. Anyone. Quick question then. Are we to be afraid of expressing our views for fear of manipulation by some fascist foreign government? Taking that forward how unintelligent do you have to be to believe everything you read, listen to, on the internet without checking from differing sources? My point is quite the opposite in fact: everyone should be able to speak their mind AS LONG AS they are not hysterical and open themselves up to scrutiny and criticism of their views. The left, as of this writing, are engaged in hysterical censorship, “cancelling” (ugh what a f**king horrible term) and will not tolerate debate that challenges their ideas. There is a severe lack of moderation and critical thought and yet a critical mass of emotion and that is fertile ground for manipulation by countries that have a vested interest in the division of this country not to mention the powers that be on these very shores who get an armchair ride when the proletariat are at each other’s throats and have taken their eye off the sleight of hand at the top that leaves those at the bottom ever poorer. Tolerance of opinion, moderation and critical thought are in short supply.
|
|