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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:26:50 GMT
Personally. I think it should stay, but be a reminder of the good and bad. I would rather see an accompaning statue of a black figure to compliment/Juxtapose it Keep the statute, of course. It's part of our history. But add the following wording to it. "This statue stands here to remind all that the City of Bristol benefitted economically in a huge way from the enslavement and forced labour of African nationals, to our eternal shame" |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jun 7, 2020 7:37:17 GMT
Personally. I think it should stay, but be a reminder of the good and bad. I would rather see an accompaning statue of a black figure to compliment/Juxtapose it Keep the statute, of course. It's part of our history. But add the following wording to it. "This statue stands here to remind all that the City of Bristol benefitted economically in a huge way from the enslavement and forced labour of African nationals, to our eternal shame" How will history change if we remove the statue? It literally serves no purpose other than to offer grandeur to Colston. I'm more perplexed by people wanting to keep it than I am by those suggesting its probably time to move on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:52:16 GMT
Personally. I think it should stay, but be a reminder of the good and bad. I would rather see an accompaning statue of a black figure to compliment/Juxtapose it What is the good? Also which black figure, a bound slave or maybe Lenny Henry? Someone who probably still experiences racism today. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:55:11 GMT
Keep the statute, of course. It's part of our history. But add the following wording to it. "This statue stands here to remind all that the City of Bristol benefitted economically in a huge way from the enslavement and forced labour of African nationals, to our eternal shame" How will history change if we remove the statue? It literally serves no purpose other than to offer grandeur to Colston. I'm more perplexed by people wanting to keep it than I am by those suggesting its probably time to move on. Not move on...but as an educational tool for those that follow us. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 7:59:52 GMT
Personally. I think it should stay, but be a reminder of the good and bad. I would rather see an accompaning statue of a black figure to compliment/Juxtapose it Keep the statute, of course. It's part of our history. But add the following wording to it. "This statue stands here to remind all that the City of Bristol benefitted economically in a huge way from the enslavement and forced labour of African nationals, to our eternal shame" Don't like the 'Our eternal shame' bit, that's a lie, it was a few elites who created and profited from the slave trade? They normalised it until people with some actual empathy shut it down. |
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Post by William Wilson on Jun 7, 2020 8:09:05 GMT
Keep the statute, of course. It's part of our history. But add the following wording to it. "This statue stands here to remind all that the City of Bristol benefitted economically in a huge way from the enslavement and forced labour of African nationals, to our eternal shame" Don't like the 'Our eternal shame' bit, that's a lie, it was a few elites who created and profited from the slave trade? Well, that`s true. If anybody in my family profited from it, the money was long gone by the time I saw the light of day. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 8:11:14 GMT
Btw I'm fully aware the slave trade still exists in forced labour of immigrants and the sex trade. Have you seen the giant farms in France where immigrants live in sheds and squalid conditions. Saudi Arabia where immigrants are forced to work for peanuts and have their passports taken, in the richest land on earth? There are plenty of examples in the UK too.
So we aren't learning from history are we? No one does.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 8:14:19 GMT
Keep the statute, of course. It's part of our history. But add the following wording to it. "This statue stands here to remind all that the City of Bristol benefitted economically in a huge way from the enslavement and forced labour of African nationals, to our eternal shame" Don't like the 'Our eternal shame' bit, that's a lie, it was a few elites who created and profited from the slave trade? They normalised it until people with some actual empathy shut it down. I cannot believe you would actually say you are not ashamed of gaining benefit from the slave trade. Of course a minority gained the most, but jobs were created in Bristol on the back of this trade. Bristol gained hugely. We should be ashamed if that. Just as Germans are repulsed by the events around National Socialism |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 8:52:29 GMT
Don't like the 'Our eternal shame' bit, that's a lie, it was a few elites who created and profited from the slave trade? They normalised it until people with some actual empathy shut it down. I cannot believe you would actually say you are not ashamed of gaining benefit from the slave trade. Of course a minority gained the most, but jobs were created in Bristol on the back of this trade. Bristol gained hugely. We should be ashamed if that. Just as Germans are repulsed by the events around National Socialism Saying 'Our' shame.... Who are 'We'? White people? Bristolians? British? The slave trade was disgusting, total inhumanity. Saying we are ashamed is false and a get out of jail for free card, it's a lie and an insult to the endless lives directly connected to slavery. "I'm ashamed, ok, let's move on." No. Do something about it, actions speak louder than words. The Germans rightly recognise the nazi atrocities and it has helped make them a relatively forward thinking country on the whole, Merkel accepting millions of refugees recently was one of the truly greatest political decisions in recent history. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 9:41:25 GMT
You can create history, put the statue in a museum, it's rightful place, and replace it with an image of unity. In the future people will either look back on us as a civilization that kept a statue of a racist slave trader, or a civilization who consigned him to history. Don't see any statues of Hitler around these days do you? But that would be a cop out surely, as if you want the statue gone you surely have to remove every trace of stuff he funded or built in the world, as wouldn't that just be hypocrisy. You mention hitler do you avoid all brands that were associated with him before, during and after the war, i suspect not Best throw your Chanel No. 5 out then Inee  |
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Post by peterparker on Jun 7, 2020 9:42:15 GMT
Personally. I think it should stay, but be a reminder of the good and bad. I would rather see an accompaning statue of a black figure to compliment/Juxtapose it What is the good? Also which black figure, a bound slave or maybe Lenny Henry? Someone who probably still experiences racism today. How about the guys that led the Bristol Bus Boycott in the 60s |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 9:54:08 GMT
How ridiculous. Fair play to him, but seriously, who calls for no police? What a stupid question and a stupid position to take. Dumbed down mob mentality at it's best. I hope they try it, I’ve grabbed my popcorn in anticipation. Two caveats: apparently they tried it in Camden NJ and put the money into the community instead in the hope that better services and education reduces crime naturally. There is some evidence that it worked. Chicago (which has a Police department) recorded it’s 240th murder *of the year* at the weekend (a statistic that has got lost in the noise) so a social experiment in the form of no Police could hardly be any worse than there...could it? |
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Post by peterparker on Jun 7, 2020 10:06:18 GMT
How ridiculous. Fair play to him, but seriously, who calls for no police? What a stupid question and a stupid position to take. Dumbed down mob mentality at it's best. I hope they try it, I’ve grabbed my popcorn in anticipation. Two caveats: apparently they tried it in Camden NJ and put the money into the community instead in the hope that better services and education reduces crime naturally. There is some evidence that it worked. Chicago (which has a Police department) recorded it’s 240th murder *of the year* at the weekend (a statistic that has got lost in the noise) so a social experiment in the form of no Police could hardly be any worse than there...could it? Echoes of The Wire, where Bunny Colvin 'legalises' drugs and give the dealers and fiends a safe zone where they wont be touched so they can do effective community policing elsewhere |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 10:12:57 GMT
Personally. I think it should stay, but be a reminder of the good and bad. I would rather see an accompaning statue of a black figure to compliment/Juxtapose it Keep the statute, of course. It's part of our history. But add the following wording to it. "This statue stands here to remind all that the City of Bristol benefitted economically in a huge way from the enslavement and forced labour of African nationals, to our eternal shame" I get a bit wound up by this shame thing- does anyone really feel shame when they go about their business in Bristol? If you can’t stomach that the city was basically founded from the mud by the proceeds of slavery then go and live somewhere else. None of us who were born and grew up there should have to bear an emotional burden of what the likes of Colston did. It’s like asking Germans who were born in the 1980s to feel ashamed about Hitler- totally ridiculous. What we can and should do is learn from history to help us make better choices and ensure that history does not repeat. Far better imo to switch the emphasis on such wording as to stress that the statue serves as an educational tool for people to be kind to *everyone* so that such exploitation and profit from human life never takes place again. Then put up statue(s) of great Bristolian philanthropists or whoever, positive Bristolian role models for kids growing up here. Lastly make it a staple of the curriculum to teach kids about the evolution of Bristol and about how we now understand how wrong that period of our history is. Whilst I agree that the statue of Colston should stay I can’t for the life of me understand why Black Boy Hill is still an actual road name in this day and age. That is a greater issue than the statue imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 10:15:08 GMT
I hope they try it, I’ve grabbed my popcorn in anticipation. Two caveats: apparently they tried it in Camden NJ and put the money into the community instead in the hope that better services and education reduces crime naturally. There is some evidence that it worked. Chicago (which has a Police department) recorded it’s 240th murder *of the year* at the weekend (a statistic that has got lost in the noise) so a social experiment in the form of no Police could hardly be any worse than there...could it? Echoes of The Wire, where Bunny Colvin 'legalises' drugs and give the dealers and fiends a safe zone where they wont be touched so they can do effective community policing elsewhere I literally can’t figure out if that is a good or bad idea. I have some considerable empathy for the idea of legalising drugs in the U.K. after hearing about how de-criminalising has gone in Portugal....but to have safe zones where dealers can run a black market drug trade...hmm....depends on the knock on effects of crime in the rest of the city. |
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 7, 2020 10:27:49 GMT
How will history change if we remove the statue? It literally serves no purpose other than to offer grandeur to Colston. I'm more perplexed by people wanting to keep it than I am by those suggesting its probably time to move on. Not move on...but as an educational tool for those that follow us. The narrative around this is confusing,I don't believe in removing statues and artefacts that pertain to events that happened 200 years ago,history is for education and learning to ensure we learn and develop as a Society ,burying stuff suppress's that in my view it should be out there for rigorous debate . Question,how far back do we want go should we ask the Italians to remove all there statues etc glorifying Rome as the Romans enslaved most of the known world for 500 years? |
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Post by peterparker on Jun 7, 2020 11:18:24 GMT
Echoes of The Wire, where Bunny Colvin 'legalises' drugs and give the dealers and fiends a safe zone where they wont be touched so they can do effective community policing elsewhere I literally can’t figure out if that is a good or bad idea. I have some considerable empathy for the idea of legalising drugs in the U.K. after hearing about how de-criminalising has gone in Portugal....but to have safe zones where dealers can run a black market drug trade...hmm....depends on the knock on effects of crime in the rest of the city. Obviously its a dramtic TV show, but a lot is based on experiences and ideas that exist and is/was a social piece like other David Simon works It 'worked' in The Wire in so much that it was possible because of derelict sh** hole areas of Baltimore, but it flies in the face of regeneration and growth in poor areas. It becomes a dark place, but then there are no need for the young runners who are ditching school. It even has aspects of a Universal Basic Income for the kids that arent working Meanwhile the cops can go about business on the streets elsewhere, people get to know their coppers and community police whilst Its a fascinating concept, but i dont see how no or little police would ultimately work. Like everything some people push the boundaries (as they do in The Wire) and it falls apart |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2020 11:28:17 GMT
Not move on...but as an educational tool for those that follow us. The narrative around this is confusing,I don't believe in removing statues and artefacts that pertain to events that happened 200 years ago,history is for education and learning to ensure we learn and develop as a Society ,burying stuff suppress's that in my view it should be out there for rigorous debate . Question,how far back do we want go should we ask the Italians to remove all there statues etc glorifying Rome as the Romans enslaved most of the known world for 500 years? I think that is a false comparison. More upto date would be a comparison of how we treated the ethnic Irish during our occupation of Eire and in particular during the great Potato famine. Did I mention the Highland Clearances? No? Let's mention that. Or the conduct of the British 1900 /02 during the Boer War? Here en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_campsOr after WW1 and how we, along with the French, carved up Mesopotamia for our own economic benefit. Or After WW2 we, along with the Americans, instigated a coup against the democratically elected President of Iran because he nationalised their oil industry. Or Our actions in Kenya in the suppression of a local uprising. All those things are taught in schools right? All I remember at Knowle Park Juniors was being forced to sing "Onward Christian Soldiers" North Korea like. Shame? |
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Post by trevorgas on Jun 7, 2020 11:52:54 GMT
The narrative around this is confusing,I don't believe in removing statues and artefacts that pertain to events that happened 200 years ago,history is for education and learning to ensure we learn and develop as a Society ,burying stuff suppress's that in my view it should be out there for rigorous debate . Question,how far back do we want go should we ask the Italians to remove all there statues etc glorifying Rome as the Romans enslaved most of the known world for 500 years? I think that is a false comparison. More upto date would be a comparison of how we treated the ethnic Irish during our occupation of Eire and in particular during the great Potato famine. Did I mention the Highland Clearances? No? Let's mention that. Or the conduct of the British 1900 /02 during the Boer War? Here en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_campsOr after WW1 and how we, along with the French, carved up Mesopotamia for our own economic benefit. Or After WW2 we, along with the Americans, instigated a coup against the democratically elected President of Iran because he nationalised their oil industry. Or Our actions in Kenya in the suppression of a local uprising. All those things are taught in schools right? All I remember at Knowle Park Juniors was being forced to sing "Onward Christian Soldiers" North Korea like. Shame? Agree Just trying to put an historical context on how far we go back. Yep had to sing that at Blackhorse Primary School ad well. |
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Post by inee on Jun 7, 2020 12:29:53 GMT
What is the good? Also which black figure, a bound slave or maybe Lenny Henry? Someone who probably still experiences racism today. How about the guys that led the Bristol Bus Boycott in the 60s How about hannah more forgotten by a lot of people, see it's cool to protest against colston at the mo, but people like her are always forgotten |
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