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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 12:56:54 GMT
Whilst I might agree that America does need a shake up of its two party system, a system where both parties are so tied in to big money contributions that they are systemically anti democracy and fundamentally corrupt. You might want to read "The System" by Robert Reich, which exposes the nature of the economy and political economy. But that not withstanding I believe it is entirely right that women are fighting an agenda there, equally minority groups. I hope Trump gets smashed and then we will have a holding pattern whilst Biden steers the centre ground. During that time the agenda for the next election will be formulated, under the activism of people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Smart, educated articulate. It will be her generation that will drive real change. I think the American election will be a lot closer than many think - especially people over here. Let's hope not Let's hope they kick this corrupt would be dictator off the world stage, forever.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 14:36:20 GMT
They are both a far cry from moderate and their support seems to be very hard right/hard left simply because of the total vacuum in American politics of any sort of middle ground in the debate. Biden in particular is promising the world to the woke left as evidenced by his support of the American women football team which shows that he doesn’t have a clue what their recent court case was about- he’s just fishing for woke points which will be just as dangerous a way to run a country as Trump’s divisive rhetoric Also I think it’s desperately sad when you can tell who is a politician representing which party just by looking at them, eg Republican, white haired older male or hard faced woman, Democrat: minority ethnic and/or female. In some ways some might say it’s good for the voters to be able to so easily identify with which side is which but for me it dumbs the whole thing down and shouts out their agenda before anyone has even opened their mouths. Biden == woke hipster cynical box ticker, Trump == establishment racist. America desperately needs a third party so their elections can get away from this “least worst option” cycle of despair that began when you had Trump vs Clinton and now continues with Trump vs Biden. Whilst I might agree that America does need a shake up of its two party system, a system where both parties are so tied in to big money contributions that they are systemically anti democracy and fundamentally corrupt. You might want to read "The System" by Robert Reich, which exposes the nature of the economy and political economy. But that not withstanding I believe it is entirely right that women are fighting an agenda there, equally minority groups. I hope Trump gets smashed and then we will have a holding pattern whilst Biden steers the centre ground. During that time the agenda for the next election will be formulated, under the activism of people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Smart, educated articulate. It will be her generation that will drive real change. I’ll make a note of that book- sounds interesting. Wrt to the female soccer players I have no objection to helping out the deservedly under-represented but the devil is in the detail of the football team issue, the judgement made it reasonably clear that the women had signed a guaranteed pay contract whilst the men chose the performance related one, the women then won the World Cup And decided they were entitled to the performance related pay aspect. To award them performance related pay would throw the men under the bus for not doing the same as the women. Biden then wades in and threatens The company that administrates the US national soccer teams with defunding unless they pay the women- he’s not doing what’s fair, he’s doing what the woke-ists want to hear and there were other similar ridiculously unfair promises that he has made to certain sections of society in order to earn work points. He’s a complete charlatan and on any normal planet would not get anywhere near the White House....but then in the strange world of 2020 his opponent happens to be Donald Trump 🙄 Honestly if that’s the best America can do it makes BoJo look like the statesman of our time. What a depressing state world politics is in. Two clowns battling it out for the White House, a clown hiding in Downing Street, Russia being run as one man’s personal fiefdom and a despot with a load of missiles at his disposal in North Korea.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 16:03:07 GMT
Whilst I might agree that America does need a shake up of its two party system, a system where both parties are so tied in to big money contributions that they are systemically anti democracy and fundamentally corrupt. You might want to read "The System" by Robert Reich, which exposes the nature of the economy and political economy. But that not withstanding I believe it is entirely right that women are fighting an agenda there, equally minority groups. I hope Trump gets smashed and then we will have a holding pattern whilst Biden steers the centre ground. During that time the agenda for the next election will be formulated, under the activism of people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Smart, educated articulate. It will be her generation that will drive real change. I’ll make a note of that book- sounds interesting. Wrt to the female soccer players I have no objection to helping out the deservedly under-represented but the devil is in the detail of the football team issue, the judgement made it reasonably clear that the women had signed a guaranteed pay contract whilst the men chose the performance related one, the women then won the World Cup And decided they were entitled to the performance related pay aspect. To award them performance related pay would throw the men under the bus for not doing the same as the women. Biden then wades in and threatens The company that administrates the US national soccer teams with defunding unless they pay the women- he’s not doing what’s fair, he’s doing what the woke-ists want to hear and there were other similar ridiculously unfair promises that he has made to certain sections of society in order to earn work points. He’s a complete charlatan and on any normal planet would not get anywhere near the White House....but then in the strange world of 2020 his opponent happens to be Donald Trump 🙄 Honestly if that’s the best America can do it makes BoJo look like the statesman of our time. What a depressing state world politics is in. Two clowns battling it out for the White House, a clown hiding in Downing Street, Russia being run as one man’s personal fiefdom and a despot with a load of missiles at his disposal in North Korea. Yep. I honestly cannot get excited about the woman's American national team pay issue. American professional sport is horrific in its self indulgent greed, regardless of gender. The bigger picture is the degree of misogyny in all aspects of American life, bar perhaps music. Now the head of misogyny occupies the White House. Like I contend, Biden is a holding pattern whilst progressive politics works on an agenda and platform that will convince the American electorate and neuter the rather ridiculous accusations of being "left wing". Starter for ten. Harris to as VP, Elizabeth Warren at the Treasury and Susan Rice as Sec State. 2024 sees Harris as President. Bring it on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 17:42:29 GMT
I’ll make a note of that book- sounds interesting. Wrt to the female soccer players I have no objection to helping out the deservedly under-represented but the devil is in the detail of the football team issue, the judgement made it reasonably clear that the women had signed a guaranteed pay contract whilst the men chose the performance related one, the women then won the World Cup And decided they were entitled to the performance related pay aspect. To award them performance related pay would throw the men under the bus for not doing the same as the women. Biden then wades in and threatens The company that administrates the US national soccer teams with defunding unless they pay the women- he’s not doing what’s fair, he’s doing what the woke-ists want to hear and there were other similar ridiculously unfair promises that he has made to certain sections of society in order to earn work points. He’s a complete charlatan and on any normal planet would not get anywhere near the White House....but then in the strange world of 2020 his opponent happens to be Donald Trump 🙄 Honestly if that’s the best America can do it makes BoJo look like the statesman of our time. What a depressing state world politics is in. Two clowns battling it out for the White House, a clown hiding in Downing Street, Russia being run as one man’s personal fiefdom and a despot with a load of missiles at his disposal in North Korea. Yep. I honestly cannot get excited about the woman's American national team pay issue. American professional sport is horrific in its self indulgent greed, regardless of gender. The bigger picture is the degree of misogyny in all aspects of American life, bar perhaps music. Now the head of misogyny occupies the White House. Like I contend, Biden is a holding pattern whilst progressive politics works on an agenda and platform that will convince the American electorate and neuter the rather ridiculous accusations of being "left wing". Starter for ten. Harris to as VP, Elizabeth Warren at the Treasury and Susan Rice as Sec State. 2024 sees Harris as President. Bring it on. I’d hope they would just go some way to being “normal” in the sense that their candidates look like they were picked for professional competency rather than because their skin colour or gender fit in with the current zeitgeist. It makes them seem transparent and very fake. Like the way that advertising in the U.K. since a the BLM protests have gone overboard to portray ethnic minorities as the principal characters. Natural diversity is to be welcomed, fake or contrived diversity is not (imo).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 18:49:37 GMT
I think the American election will be a lot closer than many think - especially people over here. Let's hope not Let's hope they kick this corrupt would be dictator off the world stage, forever. I’ll respect the vote of the American people, in much the same way I don’t give a stuff what anyone overseas thinks of who we choose to lead the U.K.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 18:52:13 GMT
Yep. I honestly cannot get excited about the woman's American national team pay issue. American professional sport is horrific in its self indulgent greed, regardless of gender. The bigger picture is the degree of misogyny in all aspects of American life, bar perhaps music. Now the head of misogyny occupies the White House. Like I contend, Biden is a holding pattern whilst progressive politics works on an agenda and platform that will convince the American electorate and neuter the rather ridiculous accusations of being "left wing". Starter for ten. Harris to as VP, Elizabeth Warren at the Treasury and Susan Rice as Sec State. 2024 sees Harris as President. Bring it on. I’d hope they would just go some way to being “normal” in the sense that their candidates look like they were picked for professional competency rather than because their skin colour or gender fit in with the current zeitgeist. It makes them seem transparent and very fake. Like the way that advertising in the U.K. since a the BLM protests have gone overboard to portray ethnic minorities as the principal characters. Natural diversity is to be welcomed, fake or contrived diversity is not (imo). Focus on the desired outcome. The rest is just diversionary noise.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 18:54:11 GMT
Let's hope not Let's hope they kick this corrupt would be dictator off the world stage, forever. I’ll respect the vote of the American people, in much the same way I don’t give a stuff what anyone overseas thinks of who we choose to lead the U.K. Of course, it's their choice. But let's hope they kick this fool into the long grass.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 19:00:15 GMT
The problem is that almost immediately after the shooting the headlines scream out “unarmed black man shot in back by cops”, the media make no effort to investigate or present any other aspects of the case. You then get the community leaders and politicians jumping on the bandwagon without full knowledge of the facts - all of which helps fuel rioting. When I first saw the headlines I thought what the f**k has gone on there, this is a disgrace. I wondered what the background was and spent 10 minutes googling for more info. It is very difficult to find anything other than what the mainstream media are presenting, I guess it’s difficult for any journalist to write anything off script? I did find reference to the guy having a history of domestic violence, a sexual offence, being arrested waving a gun around in a bar whilst drunk and assaulting a police officer. There was also reference to an outstanding arrest warrant(?). Perhaps this is why the cops were heavy handed? The other video reportedly shows him wrestling on the ground with two cops before freeing himself and going for his car - the rest as they say is history. It is hard to corroborate these reports if the majority of media are choosing to keep that stuff hidden, we’ll have to see what comes out in the investigation. For the life of me I don’t understand why people just don’t do what they are told by the police. Regardless of what people think of them they have to be obeyed, resisting, running etc just fuel the situation. Even more relevant when the cops are carrying guns. How could the media "investigate" the case? 48 hours in and no official information had, and still not, been released. The only fact was a black guy was shot in the back. The video, as far as I know, shows no evidence that he was carrying a weapon. It's all subject to an investigation and we should not speculate. The only thing on the net, if you Google, is speculation. No need to repeat. As far as obeying the cops, sound in principle, but the trouble is the cops there have lost the trust of to many of afro American community, who genuinely fear that when stopped the cops will conjure an excuse to shoot them. Rightly or wrongly, but there have been to many examples of exactly that. Anyway the police there do not police by consent, they police by force. You have to understand that dynamic to fully appreciate what goes on there. They will have been on the scene almost immediately questioning bystanders and locals. They will have learned quite quickly what went on, what occurred in the build up, the character of the individual involved and probably info from some unofficial police sources. They chose to present a very one sided story as that is what everyone wants to hear, the media presentation of what occurred and the disgraceful comments from the Governor (who seems to have already acted as judge, jury and executioner) directly led to the disgusting mobs taking to the streets. I’m not sure what setting fire to 140 cars of a local business or wiping the shelves of a local jeweller and phone shop does to aid the BAME cause.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 19:21:22 GMT
How could the media "investigate" the case? 48 hours in and no official information had, and still not, been released. The only fact was a black guy was shot in the back. The video, as far as I know, shows no evidence that he was carrying a weapon. It's all subject to an investigation and we should not speculate. The only thing on the net, if you Google, is speculation. No need to repeat. As far as obeying the cops, sound in principle, but the trouble is the cops there have lost the trust of to many of afro American community, who genuinely fear that when stopped the cops will conjure an excuse to shoot them. Rightly or wrongly, but there have been to many examples of exactly that. Anyway the police there do not police by consent, they police by force. You have to understand that dynamic to fully appreciate what goes on there. They will have been on the scene almost immediately questioning bystanders and locals. They will have learned quite quickly what went on, what occurred in the build up, the character of the individual involved and probably info from some unofficial police sources. They chose to present a very one sided story as that is what everyone wants to hear, the media presentation of what occurred and the disgraceful comments from the Governor (who seems to have already acted as judge, jury and executioner) directly led to the disgusting mobs taking to the streets. I’m not sure what setting fire to 140 cars of a local business or wiping the shelves of a local jeweller and phone shop does to aid the BAME cause. Sorry Eric but your opening proposition in that post is pure conjecture. You cannot possibly know what happened immediately after that event. Why don't we wait until an official response is released or someone comes up with something concrete.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2020 20:42:28 GMT
They will have been on the scene almost immediately questioning bystanders and locals. They will have learned quite quickly what went on, what occurred in the build up, the character of the individual involved and probably info from some unofficial police sources. They chose to present a very one sided story as that is what everyone wants to hear, the media presentation of what occurred and the disgraceful comments from the Governor (who seems to have already acted as judge, jury and executioner) directly led to the disgusting mobs taking to the streets. I’m not sure what setting fire to 140 cars of a local business or wiping the shelves of a local jeweller and phone shop does to aid the BAME cause. Sorry Eric but your opening proposition in that post is pure conjecture. You cannot possibly know what happened immediately after that event. Why don't we wait until an official response is released or someone comes up with something concrete. It’s more likely than not though. It’s a shame the governor and media are not more careful with their words, how much damage will have been done within the local community and more widely. Perhaps they should wait until their is an official response or ‘something concrete’ before inflammatory reports are are published or speeches made?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 7:48:09 GMT
I noted this morning that the oft vilified BBC gave broad coverage this morning on R4 of an appeal by relatives of the victim in Wisconsin for calm and for there to be no violence.
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Post by William Wilson on Aug 26, 2020 10:03:35 GMT
The problem is that almost immediately after the shooting the headlines scream out “unarmed black man shot in back by cops”, the media make no effort to investigate or present any other aspects of the case. You then get the community leaders and politicians jumping on the bandwagon without full knowledge of the facts - all of which helps fuel rioting. When I first saw the headlines I thought what the f**k has gone on there, this is a disgrace. I wondered what the background was and spent 10 minutes googling for more info. It is very difficult to find anything other than what the mainstream media are presenting, I guess it’s difficult for any journalist to write anything off script? I did find reference to the guy having a history of domestic violence, a sexual offence, being arrested waving a gun around in a bar whilst drunk and assaulting a police officer. There was also reference to an outstanding arrest warrant(?). Perhaps this is why the cops were heavy handed? The other video reportedly shows him wrestling on the ground with two cops before freeing himself and going for his car - the rest as they say is history. It is hard to corroborate these reports if the majority of media are choosing to keep that stuff hidden, we’ll have to see what comes out in the investigation. For the life of me I don’t understand why people just don’t do what they are told by the police. Regardless of what people think of them they have to be obeyed, resisting, running etc just fuel the situation. Even more relevant when the cops are carrying guns. As far as obeying the cops, sound in principle, but the trouble is the cops there have lost the trust of to many of afro American community, who genuinely fear that when stopped the cops will conjure an excuse to shoot them. Rightly or wrongly, but there have been to many examples of exactly that. Anyway the police there do not police by consent, they police by force. That may be so, but refusing to stand still when told to do so, is just handing the police an excuse to shoot you. No need to conjure one. If the police tell someone to stand still, and he refuses to comply, then neither party is behaving by consent. Opening a car door and reaching inside, not only gives the police an excuse to shoot you, but pretty much guarantees their acquittal in any subsequent investigation. The police will simply say that they feared the suspect was reaching for a weapon. Hard thing to disprove.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 10:25:08 GMT
As far as obeying the cops, sound in principle, but the trouble is the cops there have lost the trust of to many of afro American community, who genuinely fear that when stopped the cops will conjure an excuse to shoot them. Rightly or wrongly, but there have been to many examples of exactly that. Anyway the police there do not police by consent, they police by force. That may be so, but refusing to stand still when told to do so, is just handing the police an excuse to shoot you. No need to conjure one. If the police tell someone to stand still, and he refuses to comply, then neither party is behaving by consent. Opening a car door and reaching inside, not only gives the police an excuse to shoot you, but pretty much guarantees their acquittal in any subsequent investigation. The police will simply say that they feared the suspect was reaching for a weapon. Hard thing to disprove. Reasonable force I would argue. If it turns out that guy had no weapon in the car, that the cops had no reason to believe he had, I think there will be a case for unlawful killing. I think a lot will hinge on the events that led upto the guy turning around to go back to his vehicle, something we don't know as yet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 12:57:37 GMT
I see armed civilians were on the streets in Wisconsin shooting at protesters. 2 killed. Sad video circulating of those armed civilians being praised by the police and supplying them with water.
Anarchy rules.
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Post by peterparker on Aug 26, 2020 13:22:40 GMT
I see armed civilians were on the streets in Wisconsin shooting at protesters. 2 killed. Sad video circulating of those armed civilians being praised by the police and supplying them with water. Anarchy rules. Some truly, horrible, disturbing and disgusting videos all around. Nobody comes out of this well. I am sure Trump will try and blame it on Antifa or something and ignore the real underlying problems
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 15:09:53 GMT
I see armed civilians were on the streets in Wisconsin shooting at protesters. 2 killed. Sad video circulating of those armed civilians being praised by the police and supplying them with water. Anarchy rules. The fact it is being treated as normal says everything really.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 16:01:21 GMT
I see armed civilians were on the streets in Wisconsin shooting at protesters. 2 killed. Sad video circulating of those armed civilians being praised by the police and supplying them with water. Anarchy rules. The fact it is being treated as normal says everything really. Having vested human interests over there, I find this descent into anarchy on the streets truly frightening. With what appears to be active encouragement from the cops will anyone be surprised if the afro American community do not respond in kind? Especially with a complete asshole in the White House fanning the flames as he desperately tries to hold on to the Presidency.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 18:59:47 GMT
The fact it is being treated as normal says everything really. Having vested human interests over there, I find this descent into anarchy on the streets truly frightening. With what appears to be active encouragement from the cops will anyone be surprised if the afro American community do not respond in kind? Especially with a complete asshole in the White House fanning the flames as he desperately tries to hold on to the Presidency. Will the media and the local Governor take a share of responsibility for the complete lawlessness on the streets? More measured comments and reporting could have made a big difference, as would a swift description of events from the Police rather than being forced to sit in silence waiting for the official enquiry.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 19:01:32 GMT
I see armed civilians were on the streets in Wisconsin shooting at protesters. 2 killed. Sad video circulating of those armed civilians being praised by the police and supplying them with water. Anarchy rules. Some truly, horrible, disturbing and disgusting videos all around. Nobody comes out of this well. I am sure Trump will try and blame it on Antifa or something and ignore the real underlying problems Haven’t seen any footage of the armed civilians yet - will catch up on the news later. Is it people protecting their businesses and properties?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 19:46:11 GMT
Some truly, horrible, disturbing and disgusting videos all around. Nobody comes out of this well. I am sure Trump will try and blame it on Antifa or something and ignore the real underlying problems Haven’t seen any footage of the armed civilians yet - will catch up on the news later. Is it people protecting their businesses and properties? Nope Seen some of the footage. Armed young man with a rifle shot two unarmed protesters. He then walked to the police lines brandishing his rifle, who did not make any attempt to apprehend and arrest. I understand the young man has now been apprehended across the State Line in Illinois. The video of the guy shooting an unarmed protesters and then not being apprehended is dynamite.
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