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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2020 14:09:43 GMT
Quite a few maybe’s there. Perhaps the biggest Maybe is people actually do as they are told and not resist the police? All too familiar in today’s society is that scumbags (black and whatever) have no respect for the law. The sad fact is Eric that too many in the Afro American community in the States do not trust the police. Sadly the police themselves have given them reason not to. In some ways yes, in other ways America is a big place and black people must be being arrested in their thousands *daily* and it doesn’t make the news because there is no story to report.
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Post by inee on Sept 1, 2020 14:32:41 GMT
maybe they weren't keen for him to get up. there were also 3 other coppers stood around doing nothing. maybe 1 of those could have help restrain him after Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe Floyd is one thing, but their policing as a whole needs to be reviewd. Much like the guy who I posted above who complied, put his hands on his head and was still kicked to the floor. They thought he was someone he wasn't, what steps did they take to find out? Quite a few maybe’s there. Perhaps the biggest Maybe is people actually do as they are told and not resist the police? All too familiar in today’s society is that scumbags (black and whatever) have no respect for the law. Over here you make a conscious decision about how to react when arrested, kick off you know your going to get hurt, same over there kick off you know your going to get hurt or shot. One thing often overlooked is here or any other country, certain areas are dealt with in differing ways, if one section society reacts say angrily or violently when stopped then the cops are going to deal with it in a certain way, whether its right or not
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2020 14:49:39 GMT
Lol, how many black F1 drivers are there, name a few black people linked with F1? He is on his own. Is F1 even popular in the US compared to their big 3 sports, it's barely linked to the US. It's funny how some people make things up in their heads to get angry about, perfectly normal behaviour. He makes lots of statements but when it comes to the crunch he is found out. Moans about the government and inequalities in the U.K. but chooses to pay no tax. An opportunity to make more of a stand than kneeling on the floor like other sports stars are doing but because it will affect his quest for a seventh world title he puts personal glory first. I presume you don’t want to explain your previous assumptions about me from my earlier post? I thought generalisations and uninformed assumptions were supposed to be the preserve of the ‘evil right’? To answer your question about my assumption. I said NBA teams are striking. You made a comment about money (them being paid) rather than the actual issue at hand (why they are striking). That implies money is a prominent issue to you, which I personally find pathetic, when lives are at stake, hence my comment.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2020 19:10:39 GMT
He makes lots of statements but when it comes to the crunch he is found out. Moans about the government and inequalities in the U.K. but chooses to pay no tax. An opportunity to make more of a stand than kneeling on the floor like other sports stars are doing but because it will affect his quest for a seventh world title he puts personal glory first. I presume you don’t want to explain your previous assumptions about me from my earlier post? I thought generalisations and uninformed assumptions were supposed to be the preserve of the ‘evil right’? To answer your question about my assumption. I said NBA teams are striking. You made a comment about money (them being paid) rather than the actual issue at hand (why they are striking). That implies money is a prominent issue to you, which I personally find pathetic, when lives are at stake, hence my comment. I doubt they would strike if it were to damage their careers or bank balance. Easy to be righteous at someone else’s expense. Look at Hamilton, he didn’t once think about putting the cause ahead of his personal F1 title ambitions. It’s not about the money to me, I don’t pay their wages but I see at least one team owner is angry with their actions. I can’t stand pompous multi millionaire athletes and right on celebrities telling the rest of the world how to live their lives and what they should be thinking. I find your arrogant left wing assumptions pathetic too. You know nothing about me. If money was that important to me I wouldn’t have taken a 25% pay cut earlier this year purely to put life ahead of money and work. Now f**k off.
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 2, 2020 5:52:24 GMT
Quite a few maybe’s there. Perhaps the biggest Maybe is people actually do as they are told and not resist the police? All too familiar in today’s society is that scumbags (black and whatever) have no respect for the law. The sad fact is Eric that too many in the Afro American community in the States do not trust the police. Sadly the police themselves have given them reason not to. I`ve no doubt, that is true. But the other side of the coin is true too. Too many in the US police do not trust the African/American community. The African/American community have given them reason not to. And as long as people pile in on one side or the other and no common ground is found, I can`t see anything improving.
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Post by peterparker on Sept 2, 2020 6:49:02 GMT
The sad fact is Eric that too many in the Afro American community in the States do not trust the police. Sadly the police themselves have given them reason not to. I`ve no doubt, that is true. But the other side of the coin is true too. Too many in the US police do not trust the African/American community. The African/American community have given them reason not to. And as long as people pile in on one side or the other and no common ground is found, I can`t see anything improving. Agree, and we are back to Trump. The adult conversation needs to start at the top, but he is too busy patting himself on the back for restoring law and order rather than, trying to tackle the cause
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 6:55:55 GMT
I`ve no doubt, that is true. But the other side of the coin is true too. Too many in the US police do not trust the African/American community. The African/American community have given them reason not to. And as long as people pile in on one side or the other and no common ground is found, I can`t see anything improving. Agree, and we are back to Trump. The adult conversation needs to start at the top, but he is too busy patting himself on the back for restoring law and order rather than, trying to tackle the cause But this has been going on a lot longer than Trump and hasn’t been resolved. It’s on him at the moment but if Biden comes in do you think things will suddenly change?
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Post by peterparker on Sept 2, 2020 7:14:01 GMT
Agree, and we are back to Trump. The adult conversation needs to start at the top, but he is too busy patting himself on the back for restoring law and order rather than, trying to tackle the cause But this has been going on a lot longer than Trump and hasn’t been resolved. It’s on him at the moment but if Biden comes in do you think things will suddenly change? No it won't suddenly change, but someone has to start it and/or pick up on stuff Obama was trying to talk about
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 8:10:49 GMT
So chicken and egg situation. Who started the prosecution, the police or the African American community?
I'd say the police may have had a strong hand in the maintained violence.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 8:13:00 GMT
The sad fact is Eric that too many in the Afro American community in the States do not trust the police. Sadly the police themselves have given them reason not to. I`ve no doubt, that is true. But the other side of the coin is true too. Too many in the US police do not trust the African/American community. The African/American community have given them reason not to. And as long as people pile in on one side or the other and no common ground is found, I can`t see anything improving. In my experience of living their and working with people from the Afro American community, the people from that community of my age group are very conservative, Christian and self disciplined. It is the people born in the 80s who have foresaken that and given up. Not universally but they do grab the headlines. It's bit like the debate from 1968, do you follow the radical path of Malcolm X (shot and killed) or the pacifist path of MLK (shot and killed). Since that period nothing like enough has changed in society there to correct the racial fault lines. The police actions there are just a manifestation of those fault lines. Obama was a sign of hope, perhaps mostly by bringing affordable health care to those who could not pay private sector premiums. But in treading a fine line between the hopes of the poorer elements in society and the entrenched reactionary forces in the establishment he now stands accused of not doing enough by both sides. Now we have an absolute in the White House fanning the flames of hatred and division for the sole purpose of gaining power. It's worse than Barry Goldwater in 1964, worse than George Wallace, worse than Nixon, worse than Reagan. That's some feat. So as much as I might believe the destruction of property, the violence, is counter productive and actually plays into the hands of the quite vile reactionary right wing led by Trump, I do understand the absolute frustration they must feel, the protesters. Hopefully they will garner together their organisation to get the vote out and dump this idiot. Install the interim President in Biden and set up the progressive wing of the Democratic Party to take control and start to right the wrongs so evident in American Society. Late edit For example...the Dam liar flip.it/BZRLGF
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Post by trevorgas on Sept 2, 2020 8:20:10 GMT
I`ve no doubt, that is true. But the other side of the coin is true too. Too many in the US police do not trust the African/American community. The African/American community have given them reason not to. And as long as people pile in on one side or the other and no common ground is found, I can`t see anything improving. In my experience of living their and working with people from the Afro American community, the people from that community of my age group are very conservative, Christian and self disciplined. It is the people born in the 80s who have foresaken that and given up. Not universally but they do grab the headlines. It's bit like the debate from 1968, do you follow the radical path of Malcolm X (shot and killed) or the pacifist path of MLK (shot and killed). Since that period nothing like enough has changed in society there to correct the racial fault lines. The police actions there are just a manifestation of those fault lines. Obama was a sign of hope, perhaps mostly by bringing affordable health care to those who could not pay private sector premiums. But in treading a fine line between the hopes of the poorer elements in society and the entrenched reactionary forces in the establishment he now stands accused of not doing enough by both sides. Now we have an absolute in the White House fanning the flames of hatred and division for the sole purpose of gaining power. It's worse than Barry Goldwater in 1964, worse than George Wallace, worse than Nixon, worse than Reagan. That's some feat. So as much as I might believe the destruction of property, the violence, is counter productive and actually plays into the hands of the quite vile reactionary right wing led by Trump, I do understand the absolute frustration they must feel, the protesters. Hopefully they will garner together their organisation to get the vote out and dump this idiot. Install the interim President in Biden and set up the progressive wing of the Democratic Party to take control and start to right the wrongs so evident in American Society. I agree Les,my thoughts are that the Constitution is so much about the rights of the individual V the state that it underpins a culture of individualism as a first priority for many Americans,therefore they have little capability to undertake collective action for the good of everyone in Society.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 8:23:03 GMT
In my experience of living their and working with people from the Afro American community, the people from that community of my age group are very conservative, Christian and self disciplined. It is the people born in the 80s who have foresaken that and given up. Not universally but they do grab the headlines. It's bit like the debate from 1968, do you follow the radical path of Malcolm X (shot and killed) or the pacifist path of MLK (shot and killed). Since that period nothing like enough has changed in society there to correct the racial fault lines. The police actions there are just a manifestation of those fault lines. Obama was a sign of hope, perhaps mostly by bringing affordable health care to those who could not pay private sector premiums. But in treading a fine line between the hopes of the poorer elements in society and the entrenched reactionary forces in the establishment he now stands accused of not doing enough by both sides. Now we have an absolute in the White House fanning the flames of hatred and division for the sole purpose of gaining power. It's worse than Barry Goldwater in 1964, worse than George Wallace, worse than Nixon, worse than Reagan. That's some feat. So as much as I might believe the destruction of property, the violence, is counter productive and actually plays into the hands of the quite vile reactionary right wing led by Trump, I do understand the absolute frustration they must feel, the protesters. Hopefully they will garner together their organisation to get the vote out and dump this idiot. Install the interim President in Biden and set up the progressive wing of the Democratic Party to take control and start to right the wrongs so evident in American Society. I agree Les,my thoughts are that the Constitution is so much about the rights of the individual V the state that it underpins a culture of individualism as a first priority for many Americans,therefore they have little capability to undertake collective action for the good of everyone in Society. That is true, but the degree to which religious practice permeates all sections of society belies that to a degree. To witness the Afro American community congregate in their Sunday finest us a sight to behold I speak as a committed atheist.
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 2, 2020 9:37:54 GMT
I`ve no doubt, that is true. But the other side of the coin is true too. Too many in the US police do not trust the African/American community. The African/American community have given them reason not to. And as long as people pile in on one side or the other and no common ground is found, I can`t see anything improving. So as much as I might believe the destruction of property, the violence, is counter productive and actually plays into the hands of the quite vile reactionary right wing led by Trump, I do understand the absolute frustration they must feel, the protesters. Fair enough.. but you`re not the one pulling on a blue uniform, and going out to try and prevent these "protestors" from burning down their own neighbourhoods. So, while their frustration may be understandable, so too is the anxiety felt by the police when confronted by a person who, statistically, is the most likely to commit homicide. Droning on and on and on about Trump, might make you feel better about things, but it`s not the answer. All sides have to find common ground. Did you listen to the speech given by the black Democratic senator for Tennessee? If you didn`t, it`s well worth seven minutes of your time. I`d like to see it put on prime time TV in the US. legalinsurrection.com/2020/08/video-democrat-tn-state-rep-john-deberry-delivers-amazing-speech-slamming-antia-blm-riots/
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 10:03:55 GMT
So as much as I might believe the destruction of property, the violence, is counter productive and actually plays into the hands of the quite vile reactionary right wing led by Trump, I do understand the absolute frustration they must feel, the protesters. Fair enough.. but you`re not the one pulling on a blue uniform, and going out to try and prevent these "protestors" from burning down their own neighbourhoods. So, while their frustration may be understandable, so too is the anxiety felt by the police when confronted by a person who, statistically, is the most likely to commit homicide. Droning on and on and on about Trump, might make you feel better about things, but it`s not the answer. All sides have to find common ground. Did you listen to the speech given by the black Democratic senator for Tennessee? If you didn`t, it`s well worth seven minutes of your time. I`d like to see it put on prime time TV in the US. legalinsurrection.com/2020/08/video-democrat-tn-state-rep-john-deberry-delivers-amazing-speech-slamming-antia-blm-riots/ What does he know? He’s not a white middle classed liberal thousands of miles away.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 10:26:15 GMT
Fair enough.. but you`re not the one pulling on a blue uniform, and going out to try and prevent these "protestors" from burning down their own neighbourhoods. So, while their frustration may be understandable, so too is the anxiety felt by the police when confronted by a person who, statistically, is the most likely to commit homicide. Droning on and on and on about Trump, might make you feel better about things, but it`s not the answer. All sides have to find common ground. Did you listen to the speech given by the black Democratic senator for Tennessee? If you didn`t, it`s well worth seven minutes of your time. I`d like to see it put on prime time TV in the US. legalinsurrection.com/2020/08/video-democrat-tn-state-rep-john-deberry-delivers-amazing-speech-slamming-antia-blm-riots/ What does he know? He’s not a white middle classed liberal thousands of miles away. Is that aimed at me?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 13:09:12 GMT
So as much as I might believe the destruction of property, the violence, is counter productive and actually plays into the hands of the quite vile reactionary right wing led by Trump, I do understand the absolute frustration they must feel, the protesters. Fair enough.. but you`re not the one pulling on a blue uniform, and going out to try and prevent these "protestors" from burning down their own neighbourhoods. So, while their frustration may be understandable, so too is the anxiety felt by the police when confronted by a person who, statistically, is the most likely to commit homicide. Droning on and on and on about Trump, might make you feel better about things, but it`s not the answer. All sides have to find common ground. Did you listen to the speech given by the black Democratic senator for Tennessee? If you didn`t, it`s well worth seven minutes of your time. I`d like to see it put on prime time TV in the US. legalinsurrection.com/2020/08/video-democrat-tn-state-rep-john-deberry-delivers-amazing-speech-slamming-antia-blm-riots/ Nobody is denying the pressure the police force are under in these situations, I don't think anyone is saying that every person who puts on the police uniform is a violent racist. In terms of common ground I couldn't agree more, but Trump has no intention of reciprocating, quite the opposite. Given his constant lying and misrepresentation it is important to keep calling him out. To the State Senator from Tennessee. I am not familiar with him but it's a classic. This stood out for me, from his speech "“I am one of those individuals who walked in back doors because the law said I had to. I’m one of those individuals who rode on the back of the bus on the back seats that were not cushioned because the law said I had to,” he said." It's the classic play by the rules and things will change speech. The classic MLK Vs Malcolm X debate. Well senator well done, you can now ride on the front of a bus and go into a restaurant. But that was 1968. In the years and events since can you really say the strategy was successful? Sure the white establishment will sing your praises, hold you up as a beacon of Afro American moderation. Meanwhile in Baltimore, for example, 100% of inner city kids qualify for free school meals, because of their low incomes. Nationwide I believe the total is 27,000,000. Yes million. In the world's richest economy, one where just today one of its leading companies has a capital value of $1.6T. That's trillion. Take a look at the demographic breakdown by ethnicity in Baltimore 62.5% Black / African American. But here lies the rub. The protesters on the streets are not uniformly Afro/Americans. Plenty, a lot, of young white people equally object to what's going on. But of course they are just anarchists, looking for trouble. According to Trump. Really The feedback I get from the campus at the University of North Carolina is that tensions are simmering there as well. Not least by the discontent over the way the pandemic has been handled, not least by the fact that they were called back to Uni, contracted to lodgings for the educational year only to be told a week after arriving all courses will be online. Something that could be done at home. Average rent is $750 a month. Now for nothing. Imagine you scrimped and saved, your kid got the grades. Now you are ripped off to that degree. This affects all ethnic groups, but poorer groups disproportionately. If they protest what are the authorities going to do, send in the police to beat them up? Maybe shoot a couple?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 13:48:13 GMT
What does he know? He’s not a white middle classed liberal thousands of miles away. Is that aimed at me? Not particularly. Tens of thousands of Brits and the British media seem to think they know better than the citizens of other countries, in this case America. The clip posted was very interesting but I’m sure many would rather brush it under the carpet, you certainly won’t see our left wing media playing it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 14:20:48 GMT
Not particularly. Tens of thousands of Brits and the British media seem to think they know better than the citizens of other countries, in this case America. The clip posted was very interesting but I’m sure many would rather brush it under the carpet, you certainly won’t see our left wing media playing it. Ok So tried to put that State Senator's speech in context, in my last post
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 14:50:36 GMT
In my experience of living their and working with people from the Afro American community, the people from that community of my age group are very conservative, Christian and self disciplined. It is the people born in the 80s who have foresaken that and given up. Not universally but they do grab the headlines. It's bit like the debate from 1968, do you follow the radical path of Malcolm X (shot and killed) or the pacifist path of MLK (shot and killed). Since that period nothing like enough has changed in society there to correct the racial fault lines. The police actions there are just a manifestation of those fault lines. Obama was a sign of hope, perhaps mostly by bringing affordable health care to those who could not pay private sector premiums. But in treading a fine line between the hopes of the poorer elements in society and the entrenched reactionary forces in the establishment he now stands accused of not doing enough by both sides. Now we have an absolute in the White House fanning the flames of hatred and division for the sole purpose of gaining power. It's worse than Barry Goldwater in 1964, worse than George Wallace, worse than Nixon, worse than Reagan. That's some feat. So as much as I might believe the destruction of property, the violence, is counter productive and actually plays into the hands of the quite vile reactionary right wing led by Trump, I do understand the absolute frustration they must feel, the protesters. Hopefully they will garner together their organisation to get the vote out and dump this idiot. Install the interim President in Biden and set up the progressive wing of the Democratic Party to take control and start to right the wrongs so evident in American Society. I agree Les,my thoughts are that the Constitution is so much about the rights of the individual V the state that it underpins a culture of individualism as a first priority for many Americans,therefore they have little capability to undertake collective action for the good of everyone in Society. You could just as easily be talking about the U.K there. If everyone voted for the betterment of society we wouldn’t have had a Conservative government for so many years of my life. Selfishness is the default setting in humans and, conversely, the more you have the more selfish you become.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 14:58:50 GMT
So as much as I might believe the destruction of property, the violence, is counter productive and actually plays into the hands of the quite vile reactionary right wing led by Trump, I do understand the absolute frustration they must feel, the protesters. Fair enough.. but you`re not the one pulling on a blue uniform, and going out to try and prevent these "protestors" from burning down their own neighbourhoods. So, while their frustration may be understandable, so too is the anxiety felt by the police when confronted by a person who, statistically, is the most likely to commit homicide. Droning on and on and on about Trump, might make you feel better about things, but it`s not the answer. All sides have to find common ground. Did you listen to the speech given by the black Democratic senator for Tennessee? If you didn`t, it`s well worth seven minutes of your time. I`d like to see it put on prime time TV in the US. legalinsurrection.com/2020/08/video-democrat-tn-state-rep-john-deberry-delivers-amazing-speech-slamming-antia-blm-riots/ Good man, he talks a lot of sense. This is the problem with polarised debate, both sides are trying to be wilfully ignorant of the role “their people” play in worsening the issues and increasing the tensions. That will not solve anything. America needs more adults in politics (like the guy above) to take ownership of the whole debate and bang some heads together.
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