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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 15:01:06 GMT
Not particularly. Tens of thousands of Brits and the British media seem to think they know better than the citizens of other countries, in this case America. The clip posted was very interesting but I’m sure many would rather brush it under the carpet, you certainly won’t see our left wing media playing it. No you won’t. Although the BBC did put up a report about a white (so undoubtedly racist) Met Police officer who saved a non-ethnic white person’s life. That doesn’t seem to have got much traction though because it’s not what the woke-ists want to hear.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 15:31:34 GMT
Fair enough.. but you`re not the one pulling on a blue uniform, and going out to try and prevent these "protestors" from burning down their own neighbourhoods. So, while their frustration may be understandable, so too is the anxiety felt by the police when confronted by a person who, statistically, is the most likely to commit homicide. Droning on and on and on about Trump, might make you feel better about things, but it`s not the answer. All sides have to find common ground. Did you listen to the speech given by the black Democratic senator for Tennessee? If you didn`t, it`s well worth seven minutes of your time. I`d like to see it put on prime time TV in the US. legalinsurrection.com/2020/08/video-democrat-tn-state-rep-john-deberry-delivers-amazing-speech-slamming-antia-blm-riots/ Good man, he talks a lot of sense. This is the problem with polarised debate, both sides are trying to be wilfully ignorant of the role “their people” play in worsening the issues and increasing the tensions. That will not solve anything. America needs more adults in politics (like the guy above) to take ownership of the whole debate and bang some heads together. The protests are because the protesters think democracy has failed them, I doubt that having 'more' democracy will win them over.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 15:53:17 GMT
Not particularly. Tens of thousands of Brits and the British media seem to think they know better than the citizens of other countries, in this case America. The clip posted was very interesting but I’m sure many would rather brush it under the carpet, you certainly won’t see our left wing media playing it. No you won’t. Although the BBC did put up a report about a white (so undoubtedly racist) Met Police officer who saved a non-ethnic white person’s life. That doesn’t seem to have got much traction though because it’s not what the woke-ists want to hear. It gets to a point when you guys just complain about media coverage rather than address any of the points raised, by BLM, by the State Senator from Tennessee, by White Supremacists, basically nothing about anything. All you seem to do is moan about media coverage of events. Events you have no truly commented on, or brought evidence to your opinion, if indeed you have one, other than blathering on about media coverage.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 15:56:11 GMT
Good man, he talks a lot of sense. This is the problem with polarised debate, both sides are trying to be wilfully ignorant of the role “their people” play in worsening the issues and increasing the tensions. That will not solve anything. America needs more adults in politics (like the guy above) to take ownership of the whole debate and bang some heads together. The protests are because the protesters think democracy has failed them, I doubt that having 'more' democracy will win them over. Indeed. He is undoubtedly a good bloke, but pushing a method which has manifestly failed the Afro American community. Like I said, it's the old MLK Vs Malcolm X debate.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 16:00:28 GMT
The protests are because the protesters think democracy has failed them, I doubt that having 'more' democracy will win them over. Indeed. He is undoubtedly a good bloke, but pushing a method which has manifestly failed the Afro American community. Like I said, it's the old MLK Vs Malcolm X debate. Yeah, and look what happened to those two brave f**kers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 16:04:33 GMT
Indeed. He is undoubtedly a good bloke, but pushing a method which has manifestly failed the Afro American community. Like I said, it's the old MLK Vs Malcolm X debate. Yeah, and look what happened to those two brave f**kers. Shot and killed. Well they were domestic terrorists after all, weren't they?
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Post by trevorgas on Sept 2, 2020 16:07:54 GMT
I agree Les,my thoughts are that the Constitution is so much about the rights of the individual V the state that it underpins a culture of individualism as a first priority for many Americans,therefore they have little capability to undertake collective action for the good of everyone in Society. You could just as easily be talking about the U.K there. If everyone voted for the betterment of society we wouldn’t have had a Conservative government for so many years of my life. Selfishness is the default setting in humans and, conversely, the more you have the more selfish you become. Whilst I understand your sentiments I can say that during my adult life I have witnessed many acts of selflessness and charitable acts that have been inspiring and leaves me to think we are not beyond redemption.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 16:35:54 GMT
Good man, he talks a lot of sense. This is the problem with polarised debate, both sides are trying to be wilfully ignorant of the role “their people” play in worsening the issues and increasing the tensions. That will not solve anything. America needs more adults in politics (like the guy above) to take ownership of the whole debate and bang some heads together. The protests are because the protesters think democracy has failed them, I doubt that having 'more' democracy will win them over. Rioting and shooting doesn’t seem to be having much of a positive effect in terms of winning hearts and minds either though does it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 16:38:27 GMT
No you won’t. Although the BBC did put up a report about a white (so undoubtedly racist) Met Police officer who saved a non-ethnic white person’s life. That doesn’t seem to have got much traction though because it’s not what the woke-ists want to hear. It gets to a point when you guys just complain about media coverage rather than address any of the points raised, by BLM, by the State Senator from Tennessee, by White Supremacists, basically nothing about anything. All you seem to do is moan about media coverage of events. Events you have no truly commented on, or brought evidence to your opinion, if indeed you have one, other than blathering on about media coverage. I believe I referred to the comments made in the video in a previous post? Don’t do a nobby on me and get all obtuse 😂 Also, are you trying to say that it isn’t fair comment to point out the differences in how news stories are received? It was only a few weeks ago that instances of high profile black people in London being stopped broke the internet with all the people who wanted to claim that the Met are racist. Those two clowns who took the selfie at the crime scene were also co-opted as evidence that the Met is completely racist. A white Met officer saves a BAME life and it barely creates a murmur. We can all draw our own conclusions as to why that might be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 17:54:45 GMT
It gets to a point when you guys just complain about media coverage rather than address any of the points raised, by BLM, by the State Senator from Tennessee, by White Supremacists, basically nothing about anything. All you seem to do is moan about media coverage of events. Events you have no truly commented on, or brought evidence to your opinion, if indeed you have one, other than blathering on about media coverage. I believe I referred to the comments made in the video in a previous post? Don’t do a nobby on me and get all obtuse 😂 Also, are you trying to say that it isn’t fair comment to point out the differences in how news stories are received? It was only a few weeks ago that instances of high profile black people in London being stopped broke the internet with all the people who wanted to claim that the Met are racist. Those two clowns who took the selfie at the crime scene were also co-opted as evidence that the Met is completely racist. A white Met officer saves a BAME life and it barely creates a murmur. We can all draw our own conclusions as to why that might be. Maybe you did. So referring to the State Senator and his comments. Do you agree that the population should submit to and acquiesce with Apartheid Laws because they are on the Statute Book?
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 2, 2020 18:03:07 GMT
Not particularly. Tens of thousands of Brits and the British media seem to think they know better than the citizens of other countries, in this case America. The clip posted was very interesting but I’m sure many would rather brush it under the carpet, you certainly won’t see our left wing media playing it. Ok So tried to put that State Senator's speech in context, in my last post I should have known really; anybody who has fond memories of a murdering, bombing, kidnapping terrorist group from the 60s/70s, is unlikely to be too impressed by the conciliatory speeches of an elderly black gentleman. But consider this, Les. There was an article in the Sunday Times, which said that the BLM "protestors" who are turning American cities into a version of Syria, are giving Donald Trump his best chance of being president for four more years. Think about that, when you post your sympathies for those "protestors".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 18:30:30 GMT
Ok So tried to put that State Senator's speech in context, in my last post I should have known really; anybody who has fond memories of a murdering, bombing, kidnapping terrorist group from the 60s/70s, is unlikely to be too impressed by the conciliatory speeches of an elderly black gentleman. But consider this, Les. There was an article in the Sunday Times, which said that the BLM "protestors" who are turning American cities into a version of Syria, are giving Donald Trump his best chance of being president for four more years. Think about that, when you post your sympathies for those "protestors". I made that point about playing into Trump's hands earlier today on here. With reference to the State Senator's comments, let me ask you the same question I asked 365. Would you William submit to and acquiesce with Apartheid policies because they are on the statute book?
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 2, 2020 18:32:05 GMT
I believe I referred to the comments made in the video in a previous post? Don’t do a nobby on me and get all obtuse 😂 Also, are you trying to say that it isn’t fair comment to point out the differences in how news stories are received? It was only a few weeks ago that instances of high profile black people in London being stopped broke the internet with all the people who wanted to claim that the Met are racist. Those two clowns who took the selfie at the crime scene were also co-opted as evidence that the Met is completely racist. A white Met officer saves a BAME life and it barely creates a murmur. We can all draw our own conclusions as to why that might be. Maybe you did. So referring to the State Senator and his comments. Do you agree that the population should submit to and acquiesce with Apartheid Laws because they are on the Statute Book? Well, Senator DeBerry and his generation certainly didn`t submit to or acquiesce with the apartheid laws that they grew up with. He made that abundantly and passionately clear in the first part of his speech, before directing his ire at the BLM "protestors" burning down their own neighbourhoods.
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 2, 2020 18:54:41 GMT
I should have known really; anybody who has fond memories of a murdering, bombing, kidnapping terrorist group from the 60s/70s, is unlikely to be too impressed by the conciliatory speeches of an elderly black gentleman. But consider this, Les. There was an article in the Sunday Times, which said that the BLM "protestors" who are turning American cities into a version of Syria, are giving Donald Trump his best chance of being president for four more years. Think about that, when you post your sympathies for those "protestors". I made that point about playing into Trump's hands earlier today on here. With reference to the State Senator's comments, let me ask you the same question I asked 365. Would you William submit to and acquiesce with Apartheid policies because they are on the statute book? I`m somewhat surprised that you`re advancing this argument. About a year ago, there was a furore in this country when Shamima Begum, the gorgeous, pouting Islamist madwoman, appealed to be allowed back into the UK from Syria, her dreams of Islamic world domination having gone the same way as the villain in a James Bond movie. Most people on here, wouldn`t have accepted her back under any circumstances, but you said that if her appeal was successful, she should be allowed to return, as the law was the law and should be respected. That being the case, wouldn`t you submit to and acquiesce with Apartheid policies because they are on the statute book? Or is it only laws that you agree with, that should be respected?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 19:05:43 GMT
Maybe you did. So referring to the State Senator and his comments. Do you agree that the population should submit to and acquiesce with Apartheid Laws because they are on the Statute Book? Well, Senator DeBerry and his generation certainly didn`t submit to or acquiesce with the apartheid laws that they grew up with. He made that abundantly and passionately clear in the first part of his speech, before directing his ire at the BLM "protestors" burning down their own neighbourhoods. On the contrary He said this “I am one of those individuals who walked in back doors because the law said I had to. I’m one of those individuals who rode on the back of the bus on the back seats that were not cushioned because the law said I had to,” he said." He did, submit and acquiesce. In his own words. Rosa Parks didn't. Would you? Come on, front up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 19:11:13 GMT
I made that point about playing into Trump's hands earlier today on here. With reference to the State Senator's comments, let me ask you the same question I asked 365. Would you William submit to and acquiesce with Apartheid policies because they are on the statute book? I`m somewhat surprised that you`re advancing this argument. About a year ago, there was a furore in this country when Shamima Begum, the gorgeous, pouting Islamist madwoman, appealed to be allowed back into the UK from Syria, her dreams of Islamic world domination having gone the same way as the villain in a James Bond movie. Most people on here, wouldn`t have accepted her back under any circumstances, but you said that if her appeal was successful, she should be allowed to return, as the law was the law and should be respected. That being the case, wouldn`t you submit to and acquiesce with Apartheid policies because they are on the statute book? Or is it only laws that you agree with, that should be respected? Absolutely I would not submit and acquiesce to Apartheid policies, on the statute book or not. In reference Begun, I would have supported (did) her return as the law denying the State the ability to strip a citizen of this country their citizenship based on that person's political or religious beliefs is one that universally protects us all, as UK citizens. Even you William.
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 3, 2020 7:23:19 GMT
Well, Senator DeBerry and his generation certainly didn`t submit to or acquiesce with the apartheid laws that they grew up with. He made that abundantly and passionately clear in the first part of his speech, before directing his ire at the BLM "protestors" burning down their own neighbourhoods. On the contrary He said this “I am one of those individuals who walked in back doors because the law said I had to. I’m one of those individuals who rode on the back of the bus on the back seats that were not cushioned because the law said I had to,” he said." He did, submit and acquiesce. In his own words. Is that as far into the video as you got? You didn`t stay to hear what Senator DeBerry and his father, and millions like them did to change that law? They marched, and they protested ( peacefully, and with dignity ) they shone a light on what was going on, and when enough people joined them, and when enough people could see how wrong the law that oppressed them was, the law was changed. By their actions, the law that said they had to walk in back doors, and ride on the back of the bus, was done away with. And when the protests changed to burning down city blocks, ( their own city blocks ) he and his father walked away. Because, apart from anything else, it`s not going to do anything to further the cause of race relations in the country. Au contraire, it`s just polarising opinion even more. What would I do/have done? I like think that I`d have joined Mr DeBerry and his father on those marches.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 7:27:58 GMT
You could just as easily be talking about the U.K there. If everyone voted for the betterment of society we wouldn’t have had a Conservative government for so many years of my life. Selfishness is the default setting in humans and, conversely, the more you have the more selfish you become. Whilst I understand your sentiments I can say that during my adult life I have witnessed many acts of selflessness and charitable acts that have been inspiring and leaves me to think we are not beyond redemption. I wonder how many truely selfless people there are out there, much less than 1% would be my guess. Modern culture is built on a capitalist system, so it's 'winners or losers'. The system is to blame for people being selfish.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 9:07:00 GMT
On the contrary He said this “I am one of those individuals who walked in back doors because the law said I had to. I’m one of those individuals who rode on the back of the bus on the back seats that were not cushioned because the law said I had to,” he said." He did, submit and acquiesce. In his own words. Is that as far into the video as you got? You didn`t stay to hear what Senator DeBerry and his father, and millions like them did to change that law? They marched, and they protested ( peacefully, and with dignity ) they shone a light on what was going on, and when enough people joined them, and when enough people could see how wrong the law that oppressed them was, the law was changed. By their actions, the law that said they had to walk in back doors, and ride on the back of the bus, was done away with. And when the protests changed to burning down city blocks, ( their own city blocks ) he and his father walked away. Because, apart from anything else, it`s not going to do anything to further the cause of race relations in the country. Au contraire, it`s just polarising opinion even more. What would I do/have done? I like think that I`d have joined Mr DeBerry and his father on those marches. Like I said it's the decades old argument amongst the Afro American Community, do you follow the MLK method of protest and resistance or the more "direct action" methods of Malcolm X. To be fair the vast majority followed MLK, for a couple of reasons. A) He was right to call out the Apartheid. B) He had the Christian Church (mainstream if not the loonies) behind him C) The liberal Jewish community supported him (a big deal in New York, politically) D) He preached passive, non violent resistance. I think all of us who were around in the UK in the mid to late 60s supported him, if you were inclined to believe that the State was oppressing minority groups, or indeed anyone who dared challenge the establishment. The sad thing is that here we are 50 years later and still the same debate is being had. Afro Americans are evidentially treated differently by the authorities. So can anyone claim that passive resistance worked? Before anyone jumps down my throat I am not arguing for violence, but I am suggesting that you can understand the anger and frustration felt by the Afro American community. Once you get that then perhaps the knee jerk reactions can be tempered. Let's not forget also that three people were shot dead as soon as there became evidence that their views were gaining traction, or sympathy, in "mainstream" America. Martin Luther King Bobby Kennedy And to a lesser extent Malcolm X who converted to Islam. AKA Malcolm Little. Trump is now applying the same tactic, describing protesters as "Domestic Terrorists" and defending the white vigilante supremacists who shoot them. Some things never change do they. As for you joining the marches William if you had been around, admirable but not enough. Would you have walked into the Blacks Only Bathroom? Used the Blacks Only Entrances? Would you have joined the Congress of Racial Equality, an act along with their own selfless activism got Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner, three Jewish young men, murdered in Mississippi in 1964? Against that backdrop and the continued killings, the ridiculous disproportionate representation of minority groups in disadvantaged lower income group, is anyone really surprised that people protest?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 10:14:54 GMT
Is that as far into the video as you got? You didn`t stay to hear what Senator DeBerry and his father, and millions like them did to change that law? They marched, and they protested ( peacefully, and with dignity ) they shone a light on what was going on, and when enough people joined them, and when enough people could see how wrong the law that oppressed them was, the law was changed. By their actions, the law that said they had to walk in back doors, and ride on the back of the bus, was done away with. And when the protests changed to burning down city blocks, ( their own city blocks ) he and his father walked away. Because, apart from anything else, it`s not going to do anything to further the cause of race relations in the country. Au contraire, it`s just polarising opinion even more. What would I do/have done? I like think that I`d have joined Mr DeBerry and his father on those marches. Like I said it's the decades old argument amongst the Afro American Community, do you follow the MLK method of protest and resistance or the more "direct action" methods of Malcolm X. To be fair the vast majority followed MLK, for a couple of reasons. A) He was right to call out the Apartheid. B) He had the Christian Church (mainstream if not the loonies) behind him C) The liberal Jewish community supported him (a big deal in New York, politically) D) He preached passive, non violent resistance. I think all of us who were around in the UK in the mid to late 60s supported him, if you were inclined to believe that the State was oppressing minority groups, or indeed anyone who dared challenge the establishment. The sad thing is that here we are 50 years later and still the same debate is being had. Afro Americans are evidentially treated differently by the authorities. So can anyone claim that passive resistance worked? Before anyone jumps down my throat I am not arguing for violence, but I am suggesting that you can understand the anger and frustration felt by the Afro American community. Once you get that then perhaps the knee jerk reactions can be tempered. Let's not forget also that three people were shot dead as soon as there became evidence that their views were gaining traction, or sympathy, in "mainstream" America. Martin Luther King Bobby Kennedy And to a lesser extent Malcolm X who converted to Islam. AKA Malcolm Little. Trump is now applying the same tactic, describing protesters as "Domestic Terrorists" and defending the white vigilante supremacists who shoot them. Some things never change do they. As for you joining the marches William if you had been around, admirable but not enough. Would you have walked into the Blacks Only Bathroom? Used the Blacks Only Entrances? Would you have joined the Congress of Racial Equality, an act along with their own selfless activism got Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner, three Jewish young men, murdered in Mississippi in 1964? Against that backdrop and the continued killings, the ridiculous disproportionate representation of minority groups in disadvantaged lower income group, is anyone really surprised that people protest? I’m sure we can all empathise with the frustration that must be felt but the problem is that the anti-social behaviour these protests spawn only hurts the communities these people live in and encourages the use of militias who shoot people and compound the problem. I read an interesting report on how these militias work by a girl from a rural Mormon community where their militia is actually an extension of the community itself - they are volunteers chosen by the a local committee comprising of the Sheriff and some other notable local officials and their job is totally different to local law enforcement. As far as I was able to understand it the militias are supposed to protect private property and ensure that no-one suspected of being a trouble maker gains access to the community in the first place, using force if necessary. It all sounds pretty ridiculous to me but these are the times Americans seem to be living in. It goes without saying that this is an actual organised militia the problem gets far worse in the bigger cities where it’s disorganised and you have people (like that 17 year old) running round with guns under the pretence of keeping the streets safe from rioters. It has shades of the private security forces in the South African townships who do the work the place can’t or won’t do. Crazy for one of the most economically advanced nations on this planet. Although it’s well to say that it’s not known whose side the violent rioters are on, this article (which explains why I would nuke Portland btw) suggests that it’s actually a battle of anti-government forces who have hi-jacked the BLM movement. I have argued all along that BLM has been co-opted by the radical left wing for their own hard left agenda: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53996159
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