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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 12:27:41 GMT
That’s as maybe, but what will rioting solve long term? Will burning down businesses and harming local economies result in improved conditions for black people in the US in 5 or 10 years time? I’ll bet, just like peaceful protest, we’ll still be having the same conversations in the same way as you pointed out above. It will require more than bending knees too. What I wonder is what effect the peaceful protest *did* have. It’s all hazy but I recall something about someone making the point about peaceful protest resulting in black people going up in the estimation of white Americans, thus improving relations precisely because they did not resort to the sort of action everyone expected them to take. Is that not a fair point, that some progress was made in terms of integration? Whilst there may be apartheid laws on the statute book when have they ever been enforced in America? Off the top of my head America has never had a South African system since the Second World War has it? The main issue has been individual prejudice and a lack of acceptance, I could be wrong on that though and happy to be corrected. And once again it’s worth actually stating that we don’t know who these rioters actually are. I can quite well believe that it’s either agent provocateurs, Antifa or, most likely, politically agnostic opportunistic thrill seekers who are behind the rioting. That certainly seemed to be the case in London with that BAME guy on BBC news who was lamenting all the trouble being caused by people who seemed to have very little in common with the people actually protesting for BLM. He had the same attitude as the senator, that violence actually undermines the message and causes more trouble between us all than there already is. I had a lot of sympathy and respect for him. Ok Let's take this on 365 "That’s as maybe, but what will rioting solve long term?" Who says there is "rioting"? The establishment press? The police? Trump? All I can tell you as fact is that there was a very large demonstration / protest in Charlotte NC attended by two if my grandsons. They reported a vociferous mixed race crowd which was entirely peaceful, and then the police tear gassed them and used rubber bullets. Who was rioting or out of control exactly? 365 "It’s all hazy but I recall something about someone making the point about peaceful protest resulting in black people going up in the estimation of white Americans, thus improving relations precisely because they did not resort to the sort of action everyone expected them to take" Mate, are you for real? Who gives a f**k about the "estimation of white Americans" Jesus F Christ. It's equality, not some patronising, condescending pat on the head. For f**ks sake. 365 "Whilst there may be apartheid laws on the statute book when have they ever been enforced in America? Off the top of my head America has never had a South African system since the Second World War has it?" Ummmm....seriously? You cannot be that poorly educated or ill informed, surely? You are kidding, right? Just in case "On December 1, 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama, Parks rejected bus driver James F. Blake's order to relinquish her seat in the "colored section" to a white passenger, after the whites-only section was filled. Parks was not the first person to resist bus segregation, but the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) believed that she was the best candidate for seeing through a court challenge after her arrest for civil disobedience in violating Alabama segregation laws." Read the date. 1955. For William, note the use of "Civil Disobedience" On the rest. It is the classic establishment playbook to label anyone who supports a movement led by others as "Antifa" or "anarchists" They cannot abide the coming together of what they consider "disparate" groups. It threatens them. Twas always thus, and you fall for it. Shame on you. Christ have a day off oldie, for the record I was born quite a ways after the 1950s and have little interest in American history. You are acting like you’ve scored the winning goal in the Avon combination league cup final and are doing a suitable lap of honour on your own after the final whistle in exultation when did I not say that I wasn’t sure and was happy to be corrected? I did recall Rosa Parks after I posted and stand corrected on that. How does America’s use of separatism compare with South Africa? As South Africa seems to be the poster child that is held up for an intolerant and outright racist era and America not so much. I think you are twisting what I am trying to say re: acceptance. I believe the senator himself referred to the perception of black people in the eyes of whites. In order to get political change you need the majority singing from the same hymn sheet so it does, unfortunately, matter that there is racial harmony to that end. Look at the U.K., how are things going to be improved if race becomes a confrontation between the people who voted Tory last time out (fuelled by a Brexit campaign based on vilification of foreigners) and people who are more progressive? I don’t see how rioting does anything to help mutual respect and social cohesion. We need to build bridges not be burning them and you do that by challenging people’s perceptions in a positive way. And I don’t see myself as falling for anything. I have a dislike of what Antifa stands for and how it operates. Do they have previous for rioting? Yes. Do they have motive for rioting? Yes. It seems you want to give BLM all the credit for the rioting, as William pointed out your wistful yearning for the “heady days” is palpable. So let’s do that, I don’t care. At the end of the day it matters not who is doing it- what will it achieve? Apart from giving you a stiffy absolutely nothing positive in the long run, I’m damn sure of it. In the short term it will result in businesses (some of whom will belong to black people) no longer being able to trade and communities being poorer for it. If that’s what gets you off then good luck to you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 12:43:32 GMT
Ok Let's take this on 365 "That’s as maybe, but what will rioting solve long term?" Who says there is "rioting"? The establishment press? The police? Trump? All I can tell you as fact is that there was a very large demonstration / protest in Charlotte NC attended by two if my grandsons. They reported a vociferous mixed race crowd which was entirely peaceful, and then the police tear gassed them and used rubber bullets. Who was rioting or out of control exactly? 365 "It’s all hazy but I recall something about someone making the point about peaceful protest resulting in black people going up in the estimation of white Americans, thus improving relations precisely because they did not resort to the sort of action everyone expected them to take" Mate, are you for real? Who gives a f**k about the "estimation of white Americans" Jesus F Christ. It's equality, not some patronising, condescending pat on the head. For f**ks sake. 365 "Whilst there may be apartheid laws on the statute book when have they ever been enforced in America? Off the top of my head America has never had a South African system since the Second World War has it?" Ummmm....seriously? You cannot be that poorly educated or ill informed, surely? You are kidding, right? Just in case "On December 1, 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama, Parks rejected bus driver James F. Blake's order to relinquish her seat in the "colored section" to a white passenger, after the whites-only section was filled. Parks was not the first person to resist bus segregation, but the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) believed that she was the best candidate for seeing through a court challenge after her arrest for civil disobedience in violating Alabama segregation laws." Read the date. 1955. For William, note the use of "Civil Disobedience" On the rest. It is the classic establishment playbook to label anyone who supports a movement led by others as "Antifa" or "anarchists" They cannot abide the coming together of what they consider "disparate" groups. It threatens them. Twas always thus, and you fall for it. Shame on you. Christ have a day off oldie, for the record I was born quite a ways after the 1950s and have little interest in American history. You are acting like you’ve scored the winning goal in the Avon combination league cup final and are doing a suitable lap of honour on your own after the final whistle in exultation when did I not say that I wasn’t sure and was happy to be corrected? I did recall Rosa Parks after I posted and stand corrected on that. How does America’s use of separatism compare with South Africa? As South Africa seems to be the poster child that is held up for an intolerant and outright racist era and America not so much. I think you are twisting what I am trying to say re: acceptance. I believe the senator himself referred to the perception of black people in the eyes of whites. In order to get political change you need the majority singing from the same hymn sheet so it does, unfortunately, matter that there is racial harmony to that end. Look at the U.K., how are things going to be improved if race becomes a confrontation between the people who voted Tory last time out (fuelled by a Brexit campaign based on vilification of foreigners) and people who are more progressive? I don’t see how rioting does anything to help mutual respect and social cohesion. We need to build bridges not be burning them and you do that by challenging people’s perceptions in a positive way. And I don’t see myself as falling for anything. I have a dislike of what Antifa stands for and how it operates. Do they have previous for rioting? Yes. Do they have motive for rioting? Yes. It seems you want to give BLM all the credit for the rioting, as William pointed out your wistful yearning for the “heady days” is palpable. So let’s do that, I don’t care. At the end of the day it matters not who is doing it- what will it achieve? Apart from giving you a stiffy absolutely nothing positive in the long run, I’m damn sure of it. In the short term it will result in businesses (some of whom will belong to black people) no longer being able to trade and communities being poorer for it. If that’s what gets you off then good luck to you. I am not going to bother responding in detail to what you have just posted. But, if as you say, you have little interest in American history, I can only conclude you are not in possession of all the facts and therefore are not able to place the current unrest into any relevant context. In other words you don't know what you are talking about. Which is fair enough, it's not everybody's cup of tea.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 12:44:57 GMT
Why did you not offer him a bed at your house? Is your couple of quid not just going to maintain his homeless status? Homeless in Bristol were offered hotels to stay in, many in my local area, but the gammon generally didn't like it as they didn't want to see homeless begging in the suburbs. There are a couple of reasons. First of all I don’t have a spare room or bed in my house. I also pay around a 4 figure sum every month in income tax and National Insurance. I don’t begrudge that money as long as it’s used sensibly to support this country and it’s people. I therefore expect my contribution to go towards helping and housing people like the fellow I just described. Therefore I have done my bit with regard to him and the thousands of other indigenous homeless people. what a I do object most strongly to is my hard earned money being spent housing illegal immigrants in 4 star hotels and immediately giving them free healthcare and all the other services that are provided by the welfare state. There are people in this country who seem to positively encourage this invasion, and shout their mouths off that everyone should accept and welcome this, and accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being racist, the left wings catch-all response. Taking this to its logical conclusion it follows that those so supportive of these illegal arrivals should also be willing to offer them a room and bed. After all you can’t have it all ways, The country's tax money should be spent on the legitimately homeless and needy. The illegals should be offered every help by the left wing twats who are so eager to welcome them into our overcrowded and under-funded country. After all, that jug-eared, virtue signalling leftie twat Lineker is going to do it. I think our exchange peaked when you humble bragged about giving money to the homeless. A conservative giving a couple of quid to a homeless person, and not seeing the irony, that is too perfect haha.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 13:07:42 GMT
Christ have a day off oldie, for the record I was born quite a ways after the 1950s and have little interest in American history. You are acting like you’ve scored the winning goal in the Avon combination league cup final and are doing a suitable lap of honour on your own after the final whistle in exultation when did I not say that I wasn’t sure and was happy to be corrected? I did recall Rosa Parks after I posted and stand corrected on that. How does America’s use of separatism compare with South Africa? As South Africa seems to be the poster child that is held up for an intolerant and outright racist era and America not so much. I think you are twisting what I am trying to say re: acceptance. I believe the senator himself referred to the perception of black people in the eyes of whites. In order to get political change you need the majority singing from the same hymn sheet so it does, unfortunately, matter that there is racial harmony to that end. Look at the U.K., how are things going to be improved if race becomes a confrontation between the people who voted Tory last time out (fuelled by a Brexit campaign based on vilification of foreigners) and people who are more progressive? I don’t see how rioting does anything to help mutual respect and social cohesion. We need to build bridges not be burning them and you do that by challenging people’s perceptions in a positive way. And I don’t see myself as falling for anything. I have a dislike of what Antifa stands for and how it operates. Do they have previous for rioting? Yes. Do they have motive for rioting? Yes. It seems you want to give BLM all the credit for the rioting, as William pointed out your wistful yearning for the “heady days” is palpable. So let’s do that, I don’t care. At the end of the day it matters not who is doing it- what will it achieve? Apart from giving you a stiffy absolutely nothing positive in the long run, I’m damn sure of it. In the short term it will result in businesses (some of whom will belong to black people) no longer being able to trade and communities being poorer for it. If that’s what gets you off then good luck to you. I am not going to bother responding in detail to what you have just posted. But, if as you say, you have little interest in American history, I can only conclude you are not in possession of all the facts and therefore are not able to place the current unrest into any relevant context. In other words you don't know what you are talking about. Which is fair enough, it's not everybody's cup of tea. And yet I’m the one listening to that senator’s experience and you’re the one invalidating it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 13:36:37 GMT
I am not going to bother responding in detail to what you have just posted. But, if as you say, you have little interest in American history, I can only conclude you are not in possession of all the facts and therefore are not able to place the current unrest into any relevant context. In other words you don't know what you are talking about. Which is fair enough, it's not everybody's cup of tea. And yet I’m the one listening to that senator’s experience and you’re the one invalidating it. You did, but you admit you have no idea within what context he speaks. I am not invalidating his experience at all, I admire him, I said that. I was questioning whether, now we can look back, whether the MLK passive resistance yielded the results we all hoped for. It's an opinion, based upon historical fact.
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Post by oldgas on Sept 8, 2020 18:54:41 GMT
Christ have a day off oldie, for the record I was born quite a ways after the 1950s and have little interest in American history. You are acting like you’ve scored the winning goal in the Avon combination league cup final and are doing a suitable lap of honour on your own after the final whistle in exultation when did I not say that I wasn’t sure and was happy to be corrected? I did recall Rosa Parks after I posted and stand corrected on that. How does America’s use of separatism compare with South Africa? As South Africa seems to be the poster child that is held up for an intolerant and outright racist era and America not so much. I think you are twisting what I am trying to say re: acceptance. I believe the senator himself referred to the perception of black people in the eyes of whites. In order to get political change you need the majority singing from the same hymn sheet so it does, unfortunately, matter that there is racial harmony to that end. Look at the U.K., how are things going to be improved if race becomes a confrontation between the people who voted Tory last time out (fuelled by a Brexit campaign based on vilification of foreigners) and people who are more progressive? I don’t see how rioting does anything to help mutual respect and social cohesion. We need to build bridges not be burning them and you do that by challenging people’s perceptions in a positive way. And I don’t see myself as falling for anything. I have a dislike of what Antifa stands for and how it operates. Do they have previous for rioting? Yes. Do they have motive for rioting? Yes. It seems you want to give BLM all the credit for the rioting, as William pointed out your wistful yearning for the “heady days” is palpable. So let’s do that, I don’t care. At the end of the day it matters not who is doing it- what will it achieve? Apart from giving you a stiffy absolutely nothing positive in the long run, I’m damn sure of it. In the short term it will result in businesses (some of whom will belong to black people) no longer being able to trade and communities being poorer for it. If that’s what gets you off then good luck to you. I am not going to bother responding in detail to what you have just posted. But, if as you say, you have little interest in American history, I can only conclude you are not in possession of all the facts and therefore are not able to place the current unrest into any relevant context. In other words you don't know what you are talking about. Which is fair enough, it's not everybody's cup of tea. He is quite right though Oldie, you really need to calm yourself down. Surely, even through your heavily biased left wing fog you must be able to see there are other, malevolent forces behind all this BLM nonsense. It's linked with the well meaning fools of XR and any other outraged protest group. This is all being steered by an international Marxisr cabal, intent on overthrowing Capitalism. That is something we've all done very well from and is the reason we can have iPad, mobiles etc to debate in this way. Can you imagine being this free if those lunatics were in charge? If these dangerous BLM, XR and associated idiots are free organisations with genuine concerns then why don't they organise themselves into legitimate political parties and present their manifestos to the voting public and ask for a democratic mandate? We all know the answer to that, don't we? You know very well they would make Liebour and that moronic old fool Steptoe look like a serious alternative. Have you seen the people that lead them? Whoever has seen it could ever forget that black bloke, leader of BLM in this country being interviewed on Capital Radio? It was a clip posted on you tube. He made a complete arse of himself. He was blustering on about how the Police should be defended and the money given to "The Community" One assumes by that he means the black communithey. When questioned about this he said, and I kid you not, that at all the black on black stabbings would stop. The interviewer was incredulous. He took the bloke apart, piece by piece. Come the end he was almost taking the water, and the idiot was too thick to realise. So, to sum up. Come on all you outraged protest groups. Form yourselves into a legitimate political party and submit yourselves to proper examination and the public vote.
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Post by oldgas on Sept 8, 2020 19:02:43 GMT
There are a couple of reasons. First of all I don’t have a spare room or bed in my house. I also pay around a 4 figure sum every month in income tax and National Insurance. I don’t begrudge that money as long as it’s used sensibly to support this country and it’s people. I therefore expect my contribution to go towards helping and housing people like the fellow I just described. Therefore I have done my bit with regard to him and the thousands of other indigenous homeless people. what a I do object most strongly to is my hard earned money being spent housing illegal immigrants in 4 star hotels and immediately giving them free healthcare and all the other services that are provided by the welfare state. There are people in this country who seem to positively encourage this invasion, and shout their mouths off that everyone should accept and welcome this, and accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being racist, the left wings catch-all response. Taking this to its logical conclusion it follows that those so supportive of these illegal arrivals should also be willing to offer them a room and bed. After all you can’t have it all ways, The country's tax money should be spent on the legitimately homeless and needy. The illegals should be offered every help by the left wing twats who are so eager to welcome them into our overcrowded and under-funded country. After all, that jug-eared, virtue signalling leftie twat Lineker is going to do it. I think our exchange peaked when you humble bragged about giving money to the homeless. A conservative giving a couple of quid to a homeless person, and not seeing the irony, that is too perfect haha. No humble brag on my part. Just relaying something that happened and which illustrates the topic under discussion. What is wrong with a non left wing person giving the price of a coffee to a homeless person - where's the irony in that? There is none, it just doesn't fit your closed and warped left wing mind's expectations. Ha ha. So, as you are so keen to see the ilegal immigration continue, even though there are no facilities to house them, and as you obviously value them over indigenous homeless people, when can we expect you to follow the example of your hero Lineker and offer a home to one?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 6:59:55 GMT
I think our exchange peaked when you humble bragged about giving money to the homeless. A conservative giving a couple of quid to a homeless person, and not seeing the irony, that is too perfect haha. No humble brag on my part. Just relaying something that happened and which illustrates the topic under discussion. What is wrong with a non left wing person giving the price of a coffee to a homeless person - where's the irony in that? There is none, it just doesn't fit your closed and warped left wing mind's expectations. Ha ha. So, as you are so keen to see the ilegal immigration continue, even though there are no facilities to house them, and as you obviously value them over indigenous homeless people, when can we expect you to follow the example of your hero Lineker and offer a home to one? Like I said, you vote for & support the conservative regime that keeps the homeless on the streets, despises the poor & underfund public services. Don't play the idiot here. What are the figures for illegal immigration? How many enter the UK per year? Seeing as you sound like an expert, I need facts to make an informed opinion. Lineker is a typical liberal isn't he, in the same boat as conservatives generally. He'll probably just end up making both sides look silly.
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Post by William Wilson on Sept 9, 2020 7:19:43 GMT
That’s as maybe, but what will rioting solve long term? Will burning down businesses and harming local economies result in improved conditions for black people in the US in 5 or 10 years time? I’ll bet, just like peaceful protest, we’ll still be having the same conversations in the same way as you pointed out above. It will require more than bending knees too. What I wonder is what effect the peaceful protest *did* have. It’s all hazy but I recall something about someone making the point about peaceful protest resulting in black people going up in the estimation of white Americans, thus improving relations precisely because they did not resort to the sort of action everyone expected them to take. Is that not a fair point, that some progress was made in terms of integration? Whilst there may be apartheid laws on the statute book when have they ever been enforced in America? Off the top of my head America has never had a South African system since the Second World War has it? The main issue has been individual prejudice and a lack of acceptance, I could be wrong on that though and happy to be corrected. And once again it’s worth actually stating that we don’t know who these rioters actually are. I can quite well believe that it’s either agent provocateurs, Antifa or, most likely, politically agnostic opportunistic thrill seekers who are behind the rioting. That certainly seemed to be the case in London with that BAME guy on BBC news who was lamenting all the trouble being caused by people who seemed to have very little in common with the people actually protesting for BLM. He had the same attitude as the senator, that violence actually undermines the message and causes more trouble between us all than there already is. I had a lot of sympathy and respect for him. Ok Let's take this on 365 "That’s as maybe, but what will rioting solve long term?" Who says there is "rioting"? The establishment press? The police? Trump? All I can tell you as fact is that there was a very large demonstration / protest in Charlotte NC attended by two if my grandsons. They reported a vociferous mixed race crowd which was entirely peaceful, and then the police tear gassed them and used rubber bullets. Who was rioting or out of control exactly? 365 "It’s all hazy but I recall something about someone making the point about peaceful protest resulting in black people going up in the estimation of white Americans, thus improving relations precisely because they did not resort to the sort of action everyone expected them to take" Mate, are you for real? Who gives a f**k about the "estimation of white Americans" Jesus F Christ. It's equality, not some patronising, condescending pat on the head. For f**ks sake. 365 "Whilst there may be apartheid laws on the statute book when have they ever been enforced in America? Off the top of my head America has never had a South African system since the Second World War has it?" Ummmm....seriously? You cannot be that poorly educated or ill informed, surely? You are kidding, right? Just in case "On December 1, 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama, Parks rejected bus driver James F. Blake's order to relinquish her seat in the "colored section" to a white passenger, after the whites-only section was filled. Parks was not the first person to resist bus segregation, but the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) believed that she was the best candidate for seeing through a court challenge after her arrest for civil disobedience in violating Alabama segregation laws." Read the date. 1955. For William, note the use of "Civil Disobedience" On the rest. It is the classic establishment playbook to label anyone who supports a movement led by others as "Antifa" or "anarchists" They cannot abide the coming together of what they consider "disparate" groups. It threatens them. Twas always thus, and you fall for it. Shame on you. "Who says there is "rioting"? The establishment press? The police? Trump? All I can tell you as fact is that there was a very large demonstration / protest in Charlotte NC attended by two if my grandsons. They reported a vociferous mixed race crowd which was entirely peaceful, and then the police tear gassed them and used rubber bullets. Who was rioting or out of control exactly?" Ok. So just because there may not have been any rioting in Charlotte, does that mean that there wasn`t any, anywhere else in the US? According to the ST, ( hardly a bastion of right wing opinion ) parts of Kenosha resembled Syria, after BLM had "protested" there. Their own neighbourhood. Their own businesses. No matter how upset I was about anything, I wouldn`t set fire to the Gloucester Road. I do note the use of the term, "Civil Disobedience" with regard to Rosa Parks. It`s very different to your interpretation of the term; a stated and repeated admiration for the days when the Red Army Faction were doing their utmost to terrorise Germany, to achieve their aims. I prefer hers. If your instincts have been passed on down the line, I suppose we should be gratetful your grandchildren haven`t reformed The Weathermen.
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Post by oldgas on Sept 9, 2020 8:18:03 GMT
No humble brag on my part. Just relaying something that happened and which illustrates the topic under discussion. What is wrong with a non left wing person giving the price of a coffee to a homeless person - where's the irony in that? There is none, it just doesn't fit your closed and warped left wing mind's expectations. Ha ha. So, as you are so keen to see the ilegal immigration continue, even though there are no facilities to house them, and as you obviously value them over indigenous homeless people, when can we expect you to follow the example of your hero Lineker and offer a home to one? Like I said, you vote for & support the conservative regime that keeps the homeless on the streets, despises the poor & underfund public services. Don't play the idiot here. What are the figures for illegal immigration? How many enter the UK per year? Seeing as you sound like an expert, I need facts to make an informed opinion. Lineker is a typical liberal isn't he, in the same boat as conservatives generally. He'll probably just end up making both sides look silly. Hold the front page, Left wing Liberal buries his head in the sand! There was no homelessness in this country when Labour were in power! So let me disabuse you of that nonsense. A very good friend of mine was a Police Officer in Inner city Bristol during war criminal Tony Blair’s pomp. One night duty working out of Trinity Road he had a government official attached to him as the government wanted to assess the number of homeless people in the city. My friend took him around all the rough sleeping locations on the patch and the govt. minister spoke to each person they found. My friend says there were at least a dozen, found in the usual places, stairwells in multi-storey car parks, warm air vent gullies from office blocks etc. This was in one tiny area of the central area. Guess what? Because they all told him they moved on or were moved on in the morning, and went to hostels or whatever where they could get food, or moved to other locations to beg then voila, he was able to officially declare they were not homeless in the true sense of the word, and would therefore record them as such. Overnight, that government official, on behalf of the lying labour government, was able to declare that “homelessness” was not a problem in that area of Bristol. You know, the area of Bristol where WE all know the homeless are the be found. Of course it’s a tragedy and an outrage that there are hopeless, homeless people in this country. It is even more outrageous they are being denied help and comfort because the government has to divert funds to cope with a daily invasion of illegal immigrants, people who have paddled here in dinghies from the socialist utopia of Europe, from the ultra civilised shores of Northern France where they have to live like our homeless people because the F@cking French do nothing to house or feed them, anxious to wave them off in the dinghies they no doubt carelessly leave lying around on the beaches. We see all this on our TV screens and in the media and yet we have half-witted morons standing around with signs saying ‘Migrants welcome’ Well, as we have seen there isn’t actually anywhere for these migrants to be housed, so it is clearly the duty of these welcomers to provide the requisite food and shelter. That prick Lineker has nailed his colours to the mast, although his ‘Migrant’ will probably be a member of Equity. And wherever did you get the ideas Lineker is anything other than a wet Liberal Leftie, with all the sh** he spouts about Brexit? And you want to see stats about illegal immigration? I believe official estimates puts the number of illegals living here at half a million. Half a friggin million, and we see every day there’s several hundred more arriving on liloes along the south coast every day. So, if you are one of those migrants welcome brigade, again, when are you going to take one in?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 8:54:18 GMT
Like I said, you vote for & support the conservative regime that keeps the homeless on the streets, despises the poor & underfund public services. Don't play the idiot here. What are the figures for illegal immigration? How many enter the UK per year? Seeing as you sound like an expert, I need facts to make an informed opinion. Lineker is a typical liberal isn't he, in the same boat as conservatives generally. He'll probably just end up making both sides look silly. Hold the front page, Left wing Liberal buries his head in the sand! There was no homelessness in this country when Labour were in power! So let me disabuse you of that nonsense. A very good friend of mine was a Police Officer in Inner city Bristol during war criminal Tony Blair’s pomp. One night duty working out of Trinity Road he had a government official attached to him as the government wanted to assess the number of homeless people in the city. My friend took him around all the rough sleeping locations on the patch and the govt. minister spoke to each person they found. My friend says there were at least a dozen, found in the usual places, stairwells in multi-storey car parks, warm air vent gullies from office blocks etc. This was in one tiny area of the central area. Guess what? Because they all told him they moved on or were moved on in the morning, and went to hostels or whatever where they could get food, or moved to other locations to beg then voila, he was able to officially declare they were not homeless in the true sense of the word, and would therefore record them as such. Overnight, that government official, on behalf of the lying labour government, was able to declare that “homelessness” was not a problem in that area of Bristol. You know, the area of Bristol where WE all know the homeless are the be found. Of course it’s a tragedy and an outrage that there are hopeless, homeless people in this country. It is even more outrageous they are being denied help and comfort because the government has to divert funds to cope with a daily invasion of illegal immigrants, people who have paddled here in dinghies from the socialist utopia of Europe, from the ultra civilised shores of Northern France where they have to live like our homeless people because the F@cking French do nothing to house or feed them, anxious to wave them off in the dinghies they no doubt carelessly leave lying around on the beaches. We see all this on our TV screens and in the media and yet we have half-witted morons standing around with signs saying ‘Migrants welcome’ Well, as we have seen there isn’t actually anywhere for these migrants to be housed, so it is clearly the duty of these welcomers to provide the requisite food and shelter. That prick Lineker has nailed his colours to the mast, although his ‘Migrant’ will probably be a member of Equity. And wherever did you get the ideas Lineker is anything other than a wet Liberal Leftie, with all the sh** he spouts about Brexit? And you want to see stats about illegal immigration? I believe official estimates puts the number of illegals living here at half a million. Half a friggin million, and we see every day there’s several hundred more arriving on liloes along the south coast every day. So, if you are one of those migrants welcome brigade, again, when are you going to take one in? You are correct about Blair, he is a war criminal. He deserves to be held to account, along with any government member war mongers and those selling arms to other governments illicit wars around the world. The problem is conservatives & labour are often inseparable, just career politicians hungry for power, money and social status. It would take a mass movement to address abject poverty, unfortunately that is unlikely to happen in the current system of capitalism. Sounds like you are too far gone to have a nuanced argument about UK immigration, shame. It is difficult to separate propaganda from facts these days, especially when the propaganda becomes from your own state, so I understand the tabloid sensationalism that you repeat in your post.
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Post by stuart1974 on Sept 9, 2020 9:02:48 GMT
Just to add something about homelessness, to my knowledge the rules Oldgas mentioned are still in place 10 years into a Conservative government.
It is done on one night, anyone dossing down in a doorway is excluded as is anyone not actually bedded down, if they are still up they are excluded too.
Source was a recent interview with a rep from a homeless charity.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 10:05:20 GMT
I am not going to bother responding in detail to what you have just posted. But, if as you say, you have little interest in American history, I can only conclude you are not in possession of all the facts and therefore are not able to place the current unrest into any relevant context. In other words you don't know what you are talking about. Which is fair enough, it's not everybody's cup of tea. He is quite right though Oldie, you really need to calm yourself down. Surely, even through your heavily biased left wing fog you must be able to see there are other, malevolent forces behind all this BLM nonsense. It's linked with the well meaning fools of XR and any other outraged protest group. This is all being steered by an international Marxisr cabal, intent on overthrowing Capitalism. That is something we've all done very well from and is the reason we can have iPad, mobiles etc to debate in this way. Can you imagine being this free if those lunatics were in charge? If these dangerous BLM, XR and associated idiots are free organisations with genuine concerns then why don't they organise themselves into legitimate political parties and present their manifestos to the voting public and ask for a democratic mandate? We all know the answer to that, don't we? You know very well they would make Liebour and that moronic old fool Steptoe look like a serious alternative. Have you seen the people that lead them? Whoever has seen it could ever forget that black bloke, leader of BLM in this country being interviewed on Capital Radio? It was a clip posted on you tube. He made a complete arse of himself. He was blustering on about how the Police should be defended and the money given to "The Community" One assumes by that he means the black communithey. When questioned about this he said, and I kid you not, that at all the black on black stabbings would stop. The interviewer was incredulous. He took the bloke apart, piece by piece. Come the end he was almost taking the water, and the idiot was too thick to realise. So, to sum up. Come on all you outraged protest groups. Form yourselves into a legitimate political party and submit yourselves to proper examination and the public vote. Imagine that, “the woke party”. How would they do? Considering we just had a stonking Tory majority fuelled by fears of Marxism I don’t even think they would trouble the Lib Dem’s figures. Just a lunatic fringe of assorted social justice twitter users. The U.K. is not as bothered about their issues as they think it is. And I say that with a modicum of regret as obviously there are things that they champion that are noble and worth addressing even if I disagree with some of the rhetoric or methods used to champion their cause.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 10:05:28 GMT
Ok Let's take this on 365 "That’s as maybe, but what will rioting solve long term?" Who says there is "rioting"? The establishment press? The police? Trump? All I can tell you as fact is that there was a very large demonstration / protest in Charlotte NC attended by two if my grandsons. They reported a vociferous mixed race crowd which was entirely peaceful, and then the police tear gassed them and used rubber bullets. Who was rioting or out of control exactly? 365 "It’s all hazy but I recall something about someone making the point about peaceful protest resulting in black people going up in the estimation of white Americans, thus improving relations precisely because they did not resort to the sort of action everyone expected them to take" Mate, are you for real? Who gives a f**k about the "estimation of white Americans" Jesus F Christ. It's equality, not some patronising, condescending pat on the head. For f**ks sake. 365 "Whilst there may be apartheid laws on the statute book when have they ever been enforced in America? Off the top of my head America has never had a South African system since the Second World War has it?" Ummmm....seriously? You cannot be that poorly educated or ill informed, surely? You are kidding, right? Just in case "On December 1, 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama, Parks rejected bus driver James F. Blake's order to relinquish her seat in the "colored section" to a white passenger, after the whites-only section was filled. Parks was not the first person to resist bus segregation, but the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) believed that she was the best candidate for seeing through a court challenge after her arrest for civil disobedience in violating Alabama segregation laws." Read the date. 1955. For William, note the use of "Civil Disobedience" On the rest. It is the classic establishment playbook to label anyone who supports a movement led by others as "Antifa" or "anarchists" They cannot abide the coming together of what they consider "disparate" groups. It threatens them. Twas always thus, and you fall for it. Shame on you. "Who says there is "rioting"? The establishment press? The police? Trump? All I can tell you as fact is that there was a very large demonstration / protest in Charlotte NC attended by two if my grandsons. They reported a vociferous mixed race crowd which was entirely peaceful, and then the police tear gassed them and used rubber bullets. Who was rioting or out of control exactly?" Ok. So just because there may not have been any rioting in Charlotte, does that mean that there wasn`t any, anywhere else in the US? According to the ST, ( hardly a bastion of right wing opinion ) parts of Kenosha resembled Syria, after BLM had "protested" there. Their own neighbourhood. Their own businesses. No matter how upset I was about anything, I wouldn`t set fire to the Gloucester Road. I do note the use of the term, "Civil Disobedience" with regard to Rosa Parks. It`s very different to your interpretation of the term; a stated and repeated admiration for the days when the Red Army Faction were doing their utmost to terrorise Germany, to achieve their aims. I prefer hers. If your instincts have been passed on down the line, I suppose we should be gratetful your grandchildren haven`t reformed The Weathermen. So basically you don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 10:08:24 GMT
He is quite right though Oldie, you really need to calm yourself down. Surely, even through your heavily biased left wing fog you must be able to see there are other, malevolent forces behind all this BLM nonsense. It's linked with the well meaning fools of XR and any other outraged protest group. This is all being steered by an international Marxisr cabal, intent on overthrowing Capitalism. That is something we've all done very well from and is the reason we can have iPad, mobiles etc to debate in this way. Can you imagine being this free if those lunatics were in charge? If these dangerous BLM, XR and associated idiots are free organisations with genuine concerns then why don't they organise themselves into legitimate political parties and present their manifestos to the voting public and ask for a democratic mandate? We all know the answer to that, don't we? You know very well they would make Liebour and that moronic old fool Steptoe look like a serious alternative. Have you seen the people that lead them? Whoever has seen it could ever forget that black bloke, leader of BLM in this country being interviewed on Capital Radio? It was a clip posted on you tube. He made a complete arse of himself. He was blustering on about how the Police should be defended and the money given to "The Community" One assumes by that he means the black communithey. When questioned about this he said, and I kid you not, that at all the black on black stabbings would stop. The interviewer was incredulous. He took the bloke apart, piece by piece. Come the end he was almost taking the water, and the idiot was too thick to realise. So, to sum up. Come on all you outraged protest groups. Form yourselves into a legitimate political party and submit yourselves to proper examination and the public vote. Imagine that, “the woke party”. How would they do? Considering we just had a stonking Tory majority fuelled by fears of Marxism I don’t even think they would trouble the Lib Dem’s figures. Just a lunatic fringe of assorted social justice twitter users. The U.K. is not as bothered about their issues as they think it is. And I say that with a modicum of regret as obviously there are things that they champion that are noble and worth addressing even if I disagree with some of the rhetoric or methods used to champion their cause. Imagine if BLM morphed into a political party like the ANC in South Africa. Would they be labelled a terrorist group?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 10:43:13 GMT
Imagine that, “the woke party”. How would they do? Considering we just had a stonking Tory majority fuelled by fears of Marxism I don’t even think they would trouble the Lib Dem’s figures. Just a lunatic fringe of assorted social justice twitter users. The U.K. is not as bothered about their issues as they think it is. And I say that with a modicum of regret as obviously there are things that they champion that are noble and worth addressing even if I disagree with some of the rhetoric or methods used to champion their cause. Imagine if BLM morphed into a political party like the ANC in South Africa. Would they be labelled a terrorist group? Why would they? Would they do terrorist things? Plane hi-jackings? Car bombings? Shoot the British Olympic team in Tokyo? Worryingly it sounds like you might still support them even if they did.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 10:44:36 GMT
Imagine if BLM morphed into a political party like the ANC in South Africa. Would they be labelled a terrorist group? Why would they? Would they do terrorist things? Plane hi-jackings? Car bombings? Shoot the British Olympic team in Tokyo? Worryingly it sounds like you might still support them even if they did. Don't make it up 365. What did the ANC do to change things in South Africa?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 11:05:13 GMT
Why would they? Would they do terrorist things? Plane hi-jackings? Car bombings? Shoot the British Olympic team in Tokyo? Worryingly it sounds like you might still support them even if they did. Don't make it up 365. What did the ANC do to change things in South Africa? Well you did refer wistfully to terrorist organisations of yesteryear as William pointed out. As for the ANC, in literal terms they committed terrorist acts didn’t they? (Morality of those acts aside). They were linked to bombings that killed civilians.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 12:02:01 GMT
Don't make it up 365. What did the ANC do to change things in South Africa? Well you did refer wistfully to terrorist organisations of yesteryear as William pointed out. As for the ANC, in literal terms they committed terrorist acts didn’t they? (Morality of those acts aside). They were linked to bombings that killed civilians. To correct you. I referred wistfully to 1968. When action on the streets was rife, both in Europe and the USA. Even better was the music and umm..."conscious stimulation"...😂😂 To the ANC. You could argue the imprisonment of their leaders, the violent suppression of demonstrators, including shooting them... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville_massacreValidated an armed uprising...of course the vested western powers, especially us, labelled them terrorists, as you have just done (although I suspect you are not fully cognisant of the facts?) and of course now they are in power, by democratic elections. Their leader, during the time of what you defined as terrorist acts, is now of course an international hero. So I wonder how history will treat the current protest leaders.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 12:05:14 GMT
Well you did refer wistfully to terrorist organisations of yesteryear as William pointed out. As for the ANC, in literal terms they committed terrorist acts didn’t they? (Morality of those acts aside). They were linked to bombings that killed civilians. To correct you. I referred wistfully to 1968. When action on the streets was rife, both in Europe and the USA. Even better was the music and umm..."conscious stimulation"...😂😂 To the ANC. You could argue the imprisonment of their leaders, the violent suppression of demonstrators, including shooting them... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville_massacreValidated an armed uprising...of course the vested western powers, especially us, labelled them terrorists, as you have just done (although I suspect you are not fully cognisant of the facts?) and of course now they are in power, by democratic elections. Their leader, during the time of what you defined as terrorist acts, is now of course an international hero. So I wonder how history will treat the current protest leaders. Well that’s why I said, in literal terms. We did similar to the people of Ireland so were the deaths of innocent people who were killed by the IRA in revenge justified? Was that not terrorism?
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