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Post by CrispPusher on Oct 20, 2020 21:04:33 GMT
The first 3 games were difficult on paper whereas the previous four have been kinder, let's not get carried away. 11 points closer to safety and anything else remains a bonus to me, mighty relieved we have finally won against 11 men also keeping a clean sheet; look to be building some momentum too! UTG
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Post by gasandelectricity on Oct 20, 2020 21:10:06 GMT
I'm very pleased we've turned a corner and are now getting good results. However by the same extent you'd expect us to probably struggle against Sunderland, Ipswich, Doncaster, you'd expect us to put in a good showing against Northampton, Burton and Shrewsbury. If we want to avoid a relegation battle these are matches we should be getting results in anyway. If we want to compete for a playoff spot, we need to be winning them.
A win rate of 19% is still very much not something to be celebrated - it would get a lot of managers sacked even at that improved level. After the sh** we watched last season I'm expecting Ben to impress else what's the point? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't begrudge mid table for a new manager for us but in my eyes, he's not. Let's watch with interest and hope that he continues this run.
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Post by stevek192 on Oct 20, 2020 21:19:25 GMT
I cant believe some people if they can't see that Garner should be rated on THIS seasons results and the team we now have which other than Clarke Harris is stronger now in every department. Personally feel we are one striker short of a team that can go places. We actually have players who want the ball and all players are comfortable with it. What more could we ask for? Oh of course I forgot that there are no "Hes one of our own in the team".
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Post by gasandelectricity on Oct 20, 2020 21:22:45 GMT
I cant believe some people if they can't see that Garner should be rated on THIS seasons results and the team we now have which other than Clarke Harris is stronger now in every department. Personally feel we are one striker short of a team that can go places. We actually have players who want the ball and all players are comfortable with it. What more could we ask for? Oh of course I forgot that there are no "Hes one of our own in the team". It's a matter of individual perspective isn't it? If we all looked at things the same way it would be a very boring world, a very boring forum and a very boring game. I'd like to think that as people we benefit from the reflections of others and can grow from it.
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Post by Jomo on Oct 20, 2020 21:22:59 GMT
I'm very pleased we've turned a corner and are now getting good results. However by the same extent you'd expect us to probably struggle against Sunderland, Ipswich, Doncaster, you'd expect us to put in a good showing against Northampton, Burton and Shrewsbury. If we want to avoid a relegation battle these are matches we should be getting results in anyway. If we want to compete for a playoff spot, we need to be winning them. A win rate of 19% is still very much not something to be celebrated - it would get a lot of managers sacked even at that improved level. After the sh** we watched last season I'm expecting Ben to impress else what's the point? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't begrudge mid table for a new manager for us but in my eyes, he's not. Let's watch with interest and hope that he continues this run. Let's hope the run continues because if his win percentage keeps getting brought up after every game, then it'll be a few more weeks until he's in the clear, regardless of how many we win. If we take this season in isolation, which is fair in my view considering we have a new team, then his percentage in the league is over 40%. Not a bad start at all, especially considering how many new faces we have.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Oct 20, 2020 21:27:26 GMT
I'm very pleased we've turned a corner and are now getting good results. However by the same extent you'd expect us to probably struggle against Sunderland, Ipswich, Doncaster, you'd expect us to put in a good showing against Northampton, Burton and Shrewsbury. If we want to avoid a relegation battle these are matches we should be getting results in anyway. If we want to compete for a playoff spot, we need to be winning them. A win rate of 19% is still very much not something to be celebrated - it would get a lot of managers sacked even at that improved level. After the sh** we watched last season I'm expecting Ben to impress else what's the point? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't begrudge mid table for a new manager for us but in my eyes, he's not. Let's watch with interest and hope that he continues this run. Let's hope the run continues because if his win percentage keeps getting brought up after every game, then it'll be a few more weeks until he's in the clear, regardless of how many we win. If we take this season in isolation, which is fair in my view considering we have a new team, then his percentage in the league is over 40%. Not a bad start at all, especially considering how many new faces we have. You won't catch me bringing up the win percentage for a while. You couldn't just ignore last season and the start of this season, the stay was awful and we didn't look like we were progressing. However, we are now progressing and moving the right way then it is pointless bringing up the win percentage. The Lincoln game was a real game changer for me and I am feeling very positive about things right now.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Oct 20, 2020 21:28:21 GMT
I'm very pleased we've turned a corner and are now getting good results. However by the same extent you'd expect us to probably struggle against Sunderland, Ipswich, Doncaster, you'd expect us to put in a good showing against Northampton, Burton and Shrewsbury. If we want to avoid a relegation battle these are matches we should be getting results in anyway. If we want to compete for a playoff spot, we need to be winning them. A win rate of 19% is still very much not something to be celebrated - it would get a lot of managers sacked even at that improved level. After the sh** we watched last season I'm expecting Ben to impress else what's the point? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't begrudge mid table for a new manager for us but in my eyes, he's not. Let's watch with interest and hope that he continues this run. Let's hope the run continues because if his win percentage keeps getting brought up after every game, then it'll be a few more weeks until he's in the clear, regardless of how many we win. If we take this season in isolation, which is fair in my view considering we have a new team, then his percentage in the league is over 40%. Not a bad start at all, especially considering how many new faces we have. For sure, only reason I bought it up was because people we're celebrating the fact his win ratio is higher than Graham Coughlans when if you did a blind taste test on it and asked someone what would you think of the win ratio of 19% then they'd probably both be getting the sack. Said it before the Burton game if he could get 3 wins from the Burton game on most would forget about where we were last season. I'm still to be convinced, for reasons that I've already stated, but if we get two more good results from those 5 then it would be very hard to have a hard word to say. I guess I'm saying, let's not get carried away.
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Post by xenongas on Oct 20, 2020 21:39:21 GMT
I've been in the give-him-time camp apart from a little wobble before the Northampton game. I hope everyone, whether it's the "get rid of him after 3 games" or the "saviour after 10 from 12" people, can agree that football is fickle and it takes more than a handful of games to make a season or a team.
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Post by eastgas on Oct 20, 2020 21:51:59 GMT
I think I voted to sack if we failed to beat Northampton which at the time I fully expected us to do. That’s seems a long while ago now and I can see the progress we are making. I was one for giving BG more time but that changed immediately after the Doncaster performance where I lost faith and couldn’t see how BG could turn it around. Well the faith has returned and definitely feeling more positive after the last 5 games. There will be some lows this season I think that’s inevitable but hopefully we can all stay positive as I think there is potential there for this team to become very good UTG
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Post by alanrg on Oct 20, 2020 22:26:55 GMT
Well said Steve K this squad is far better than last season has an example in midfield Zain Westbrooke and Erhun Oztumer r much better players than the ones who left and the football is much better than under Coughlan which was dire look what he is doing at Mansfield
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Post by Charlton Hayes Gas on Oct 20, 2020 22:30:19 GMT
And to think these lads are producing these results after training this season so far on what is effectively a Posh school playing field.
Once these boys are training at Hortham Lane they’re gonna take it to another level we haven’t seen before.
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Post by axegas on Oct 20, 2020 22:44:51 GMT
I said at the time it was a matter of whether you judge Garner's tenure from when he took over last season or just his results this season with a squad largely recruited in the summer as to whether you wanted Garner sacked or wanted to give him more time.
I can see why people wanted him out after Doncaster, 2 wins after 22 games was simply not a good enough record for a manager of any football club, I don't think anyone should take the mickey out of people who had that view in retrospect because that was an entirely valid opinion to have had at the time.
The thing is though we had played three of the best teams in the division in Sunderland, Ipswich and Doncaster, we got a creditable point against Sunderland and weren't entirely out of the games against Doncaster or Ipswich either.
Since then we've played clubs like Burton, Shrewsbury and Northampton and proved that we can secure results through good defending and having strikers in Hanlan and Daly that can put the ball in the back of the net.
Games like these are always going to be the litmus test as to truly how good we are this year under Garner and so far I think the squad has passed that test with flying colours.
People just wanted to see that a side under Garner was able to win games and go on an unbeaten run and I think he has delivered that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2020 23:49:46 GMT
I've been in the give-him-time camp apart from a little wobble before the Northampton game. I hope everyone, whether it's the "get rid of him after 3 games" or the "saviour after 10 from 12" people, can agree that football is fickle and it takes more than a handful of games to make a season or a team. A reasonable view. If you can argue that you can’t judge on the first three then you can argue that you cante judge on the last three either for the opposite reason. Swings and roundabouts. As it is the next 2 are very interesting fixtures: an Accrington side in decent form who will be a challenge and a chance to play another top side in Hull to see if we have visibly progressed from the shambles at Doncaster. I don’t think we will win either but I don’t see that as being the end of the world whereas I felt quite differently a couple of games ago. I think Garner has earned a bit of time with the three wins so far.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2020 23:55:02 GMT
I said at the time it was a matter of whether you judge Garner's tenure from when he took over last season or just his results this season with a squad largely recruited in the summer as to whether you wanted Garner sacked or wanted to give him more time. I can see why people wanted him out after Doncaster, 2 wins after 22 games was simply not a good enough record for a manager of any football club, I don't think anyone should take the mickey out of people who had that view in retrospect because that was an entirely valid opinion to have had at the time. The thing is though we had played three of the best teams in the division in Sunderland, Ipswich and Doncaster, we got a creditable point against Sunderland and weren't entirely out of the games against Doncaster or Ipswich either. Since then we've played clubs like Burton, Shrewsbury and Northampton and proved that we can secure results through good defending and having strikers in Hanlan and Daly that can put the ball in the back of the net. Games like these are always going to be the litmus test as to truly how good we are this year under Garner and so far I think the squad has passed that test with flying colours. People just wanted to see that a side under Garner was able to win games and go on an unbeaten run and I think he has delivered that. Yeah that’s a fair summation - when you have a win ratio like Garner’s you have to prove that you can win games or steady the ship and at least have something of an unbeaten run. It’s been a pleasant surprise recently albeit against teams who are weaker than most we will play. Even taking playing weaker sides into account you still have to beat them and I had no confidence of that so I’m surprised to see us in 10th and in touch with the play off sides at this point in the season.
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Post by lisbongas on Oct 21, 2020 1:11:13 GMT
I cant believe some people if they can't see that Garner should be rated on THIS seasons results and the team we now have which other than Clarke Harris is stronger now in every department. Personally feel we are one striker short of a team that can go places. We actually have players who want the ball and all players are comfortable with it. What more could we ask for? Oh of course I forgot that there are no "Hes one of our own in the team". I would like to think the purchase of Ryan Jones a local boy at WSM will be a catalyst to see more local lads not just bought but coming through the ranks. Incredible to see Brentford sell two players and raise the cost of building a stadium, a model to aim for. Shame Chris lines was a few years past his best, if he had been here under Garner doubt he would have been discarded in quite the same way as GC did.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Oct 21, 2020 4:57:03 GMT
Even if that full season leads to relegation? I know you think it won't lead to it, but entertain the notion... Two strikers might be enough, your post might be right. It's a big, big risk not replacing jch goals. We might be ok and both strikers might replace jch scoring record. What happens if they don't? What happens if Hanlan gets a hamstring injury? It, as what happened Saturday, teams are resorting to giving him a dead leg. Succession of dead legs? What could be the consequence if we don't replace jch? The financial cost? Your post arbitrary throws out £500k. Nice. Piggot is allegedly available for half that. Your post brings in Wael and the pandemic. I've got nothing but praise for how Wael has supported the club financially and have posted this before. But, with regards to playing staff, BG alluded we are very much in profit for offloading high earners and recruiting 6 free transfers and 2 loans. We only paid undisclosed fees for Westbrooke and Hanlan, with Ayunga going to tribunal. It's not completely correct we've broken the bank already. Finally, I'd just like to commend you on your post regarding two strikers scoring. You've made my point for me.....20 matches in, and BG starts a team with NO strikers at Ipswich! Then one v Sunderland and Ipswich again! Fair play because it's horrible anyone having to deal with family crisis and health scare of the pandemic, but it isn't until well over 20+ matches BG decides to start two strikers (whether they actually play as a 2 up front is a different matter) up front and we have a hallelujah moment along with Hare replacing Little that was more luck than judgement ! ? And that's where I see BG judgements at the moment, lucky. 10 points out of 12, front two looking better each game, competition in all places, Ozturk brought in and offers cover upfront. Not sure I would call it lucky, seems more like a well thought out plan. A team that is exciting to watch and well coached will only get better.Whats certain is that its 100% more enjoyable than the rubbish served up by GC (the worse football I can recall in the past 45 years). A bubble that would have burst soon enough. All very good and well, but you still haven't answered my question though? Nothing is ever won after 7 matches. I agree with the holistic view on THIS season's view only, but it's not a coincidence that our recent form has been due to the inclusion of starting 2 strikers and playing them as such (because when we reverted to one through 2 poor sub choices, which I think is BG favoured stance v Burton, we conceded), and effective wing backs (something I was struggling with Little inclusion over Hare despite Little poor form) so it's easy to post something like this with hindsight, but I was referring to what I had seen as evidence with my own eyes. Fair play we look more balanced, and entertaining going forward. I still say we are defensively fragile and are one striker injury away from impotency (I still think we need an experienced striker)..... something GC had wrapped up early in his tenure. But....to cap it off, I am more than happy to move closer to your deluded stance if the evidence continues to suggests this. As ever we'll see, but for 10/12 points in an unbeaten run of 4 matches, well done BG and his team...
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 21, 2020 8:44:17 GMT
GC relied 100% on JCH's fitness/goals the only other strikers were Nichols, Reilly & Moore who scored around 5 league goals all together last season, BG's got Hanlan, Daly, Nicholson and Ayunga plus Oztumer can play the No 10 role and Walker's pushing for a place on the bench.
As far as our defence being fragile, how many goals have we conceded in the last 4 league games?
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on Oct 21, 2020 8:53:37 GMT
GC relied 100% on JCH's fitness/goals the only other strikers were Nichols, Reilly & Moore who scored around 5 league goals all together last season, BG's got Hanlan, Daly, Nicholson and Ayunga plus Oztumer can play the No 10 role and Walker's pushing for a place on the bench. As far as our defence being fragile, how many goals have we conceded in the last 4 league games? Fair points there, over the last 4 league games an average of 0.5 conceded so very good!
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Post by Fetch on Oct 21, 2020 9:13:15 GMT
No one had a crystal ball. As of the Doncaster game, Garner had 2 wins in 24 league games and we looked a very soft touch. There was little to nothing to get behind beyond an unproven concept of "attractive possession football". To be honest I think the shouts for him to go were pretty warranted, football is a results business and were simply were not getting any.
That said, I'm glad we showed patience as Garner and this team have developed well over the past month and I now have confidence that we will be absolutely fine at this level and that next season this group will be really strong and experienced. This month was huge for the club and we've proven with results that Garner can be the man to take us forwards.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 9:19:47 GMT
GC relied 100% on JCH's fitness/goals the only other strikers were Nichols, Reilly & Moore who scored around 5 league goals all together last season, BG's got Hanlan, Daly, Nicholson and Ayunga plus Oztumer can play the No 10 role and Walker's pushing for a place on the bench. As far as our defence being fragile, how many goals have we conceded in the last 4 league games? I assume that’s a reference to the fact that we still give easy chances away- I only listened to the first 50 minutes last night as I had to go out but it sounded like Clarke missed a good sitter late in the first half where he hit the post so it could have gone the same way as the Burton game. Jaakkola’s also had huge saves to make the last two games.
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