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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 12:37:08 GMT
chewbacca, The problem is not all down to comparing new players v who they replaced- the problem is replacing them all at once.If you replaced Grant with Ollie Clarke you would not improve this team. if however you put JCH in THIS team you would improve it immediately because of the effect a natural goalscorer would have on the team and individual performances. I would go as far as to say that Clarke Harris would have adde4d 12-15 points on to our total so far- that is how important a goalscorer is when you find one and 1.5 million is no good whatsoever if you don't invest at least some of it in a replacement. The problem with our "Club blueprint" is to make money on players signed is fine BUT you must INVEST some of that money in QUALITY replacements that can perform now not in three years time! Clarke-Harris is a great goal scorer but a poor shot stopper. To win games out of nothing you still need a solid defence and we haven’t had that at any point during Garner’s time at the club. In fact JCH played a few games under Garner and was half the player he was under Cogs so it’s too simplistic to say put him in a Garnerball team and we’d be mid-table right now.
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Post by chewbacca on Dec 3, 2020 12:42:32 GMT
chewbacca, The problem is not all down to comparing new players v who they replaced- the problem is replacing them all at once.If you replaced Grant with Ollie Clarke you would not improve this team. if however you put JCH in THIS team you would improve it immediately because of the effect a natural goalscorer would have on the team and individual performances. I would go as far as to say that Clarke Harris would have adde4d 12-15 points on to our total so far- that is how important a goalscorer is when you find one and 1.5 million is no good whatsoever if you don't invest at least some of it in a replacement. The problem with our "Club blueprint" is to make money on players signed is fine BUT you must INVEST some of that money in QUALITY replacements that can perform now not in three years time! Clarke-Harris is a great goal scorer but a poor shot stopper. To win games out of nothing you still need a solid defence and we haven’t had that at any point during Garner’s time at the club. In fact JCH played a few games under Garner and was half the player he was under Cogs so it’s too simplistic to say put him in a Garnerball team and we’d be mid-table right now. Doesn't matter what gun you've got if you've got no ammo.
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Post by scottleroc on Dec 3, 2020 12:46:09 GMT
Trying to put some positivity forward (clutching at straws), with Little and Rodman back we will have more experience, which seems PT’s preference. With Daly and Ayunga back we will have more competition up front and more physicality and ability to change things. My concern, like most here, is the absolute lack of fire and graft in this squad. I actually also think Josh Barrett, when fitter, has the ability and attitude to be an asset. I really worry PT isn’t the one to get a tune out of this squad though. I was one of the naive ones who thought BG could turn it around. So I think there is the potential to turn this around but not convinced. I really hope in a few months time we’re all looking back on the early season blip...........!!
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Post by albaron on Dec 3, 2020 12:48:47 GMT
I'm not sure what PT will do to sort the team out -- But i do have some questions/observations :-
1.When Aguna & Daley are fit . They need to be paired together up front . ( A bit like Warboys/Bannister ) 2. Hanlon to play just wide of them 3. Oztumer & Nicholson have to retain their places. 4. After a good game -- What has happened to Barret ? 5. Grant needs to be rested. 6. If JML is not going to be considered -- Try and send back to parent club 7. Come Jan a New striker to be signed and try and loan out Kelly,Harries & Upson 8. Prey.
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Post by thegasman on Dec 3, 2020 12:58:19 GMT
I am suddenly enjoying this thread so much more than reading: he's 5h1t, useless squad, doing nothing. etc. hopefully you get my drift. Hearing reasoning and reasoned arguments makes for a much better read. Thank you all; I was feeling v down with the whole football thing, football has been the "constant" that has just about kept me sane, having been cooped up for what feels like forever, roll on next season (hopefully still in L1) when we should be able to get back to some form of normality, and start watching the games from the terraces. Oh and the beers beforehand. The thread is starting to remind me of terrace talk.
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Post by thegasman on Dec 3, 2020 12:59:41 GMT
Justin Blue, reactionary maybe ,drivel unfortunately not! watching Rovers at the moment is something which unfortunately it is in my blood and I can't stop it despite it not making pleasant viewing. I can only hope that we can get a lucky win soon and suddenly the errors will go out of players games and the few moments of class which is visible at times in these players become more regular. With a couple more attacking options this squad is capable of turning this around but the longer the present run goes on the less likely that becomes. Did anyone actually see the match possession facts ,we more than matched Gillingham, two bad defensive lapses cost us, they were more robust than use,I thought Otzuma and Nicholson were outstanding, Hanlans first touch was appalling as usual, but he is on his own, our centre backs are our weakness, but I honestly think we are not a relegation side, and not far off a good side ,Upson is too slow,[perhaps his age is catching up] too much negativity on here,.. give Tisdale a chance to turn things around......... UTG, Ps I do agree we need a couple of goal scoring strikers....... Isn't this what did for Garner in the end? Talking of possession stats etc, but not really achieving in the last few games?
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Post by stapletongas on Dec 3, 2020 17:57:32 GMT
The BG rebuild has consisted as far too many young developing players and you have to question whether BG wanted players who were young and there for development a) because that is what he has spent his career so far doing and is his comfort zone and b) because older more experienced heads would be bigger personalities and more knowledgeable than him because he had no player career. Watching this develop over the summer was worrying and all you could do was hope he could make it work. Well time proved he couldn't and Tisdale has inherited the problem and I hope he and Mr 100% are already scanning the market for January.
Every team needs a good spine running right down through the middle of the pitch to have a chance to do well or better. An experienced keeper, 2 experienced centre backs, 2 experienced centre mids and at least one experienced older head up top. We've got the keep and we've got Ehmer and that is it from what I've seen. Ok watching on the telly doesn't give you the full 360 of everything going on out on the pitch, you watch what the camera points at and not necessarily players/elements of team shape that you want to look at. But it looks like we are sorely lacking in experienced leadership down through that spine.
An old Holloway chestnut, "you need piano players and piano movers", you have to have players who do the dirty work so the artists can shine. Where are the centre mids who break it up and give it? The critics Ollie Clarke and his like have had over the years! I'd have him back in a shot but that won't happen.
These balances need sorting out. Sadly all Tisdale can do is work with what he has until seeing what is available in January.
Until then he needs our support and sympathy because this won't be easy and may prove to be the hardest managerial job of his career.
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Post by oldgas on Dec 3, 2020 18:22:18 GMT
It's all a bit of a mess really. Let's hope that Tisdale has the time, and BOD support to put it right. It's all about survival this season I'm afraid.
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 3, 2020 18:41:51 GMT
When I was watching the fa cup game on Sunday I thought to myself about the old concept that luck equals itself out over a season regarding things such as lucky bounces and refereeing decisions.... And it struck me that we used 6 months of luck up in one game.... That’s the gamblers fallacy! While luck exists, the luck never has a cumulative effect and every game, every play, has its own inherent chance. If you flip 100 heads, the next flip is still a 50/50 chance. It is always a 50/50 chance. However I suggest there are strong odds that this was just a throwaway, comical observation and even stronger odds that I’ve over intellectualised your post.
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Post by theduke on Dec 3, 2020 19:17:36 GMT
The BG rebuild has consisted as far too many young developing players and you have to question whether BG wanted players who were young and there for development a) because that is what he has spent his career so far doing and is his comfort zone and b) because older more experienced heads would be bigger personalities and more knowledgeable than him because he had no player career. Watching this develop over the summer was worrying and all you could do was hope he could make it work. Well time proved he couldn't and Tisdale has inherited the problem and I hope he and Mr 100% are already scanning the market for January. Agree with most of your post, but this strategy of recruiting mainly younger inexperienced players was not just down to Garner. He was brought in with exactly that remit and wouldn't have even got the job if he didn't sign up to that mandate. Where Garner went wrong is alienating senior players almost immediately ("I don't want you come the end of the season and you're out of contract, but run through brick walls for me in the meantime") which is why it didn't surprise me when the club went on an horrendous run of results post-Christmas. I've never seen a greater example of a club treading water than between December-March. There was half a season still to work with and the club essentially jibbed it and put all their eggs into the summer. But ultimately the club have to take responsibility. Garner was always the wrong man for the job, but this is their sh1tshow. They could have pursued this strategy at a slower pace and bedded younger players in alongside experienced heads which would have allowed them to find their feet. Instead they turned over almost an entire squad and expected instant results.
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Post by rememberhalifax on Dec 3, 2020 19:20:20 GMT
Well this is all very disappointing chaps, been steering clear of forum since Gills, knew what reaction would be! I understand the frustration felt by fans, but listen 'WE AINT GETTING RELEGATED!'. Almost to a man/woman we were all exited about the apparent quality of our new signings but for what ever reason they have fallen way short of what we expected, one or two excepted. A lot of this expectation was based on stats which said eg Westbrooke was one of the best midfielders, Ehmer was one of the best defenders and so on and so on, this goes to prove the old adage' there are lies etc and statistics! My question is this 'are potential signings watched by real people i.e. scouts over a number of games or do we just rely on videos and the aforesaid statistics and then sign a player? Anyway we are where we are but i have every confidence in Paul Tisdale to pull us clear and lead us to better times. Our situation is grim but it is still early season and there is plenty of time to put things right. He will be learning every passing day who is not up to the job and needs off loading, and by Jan will have a clear idea of what is required, I am confident he is compiling his shopping list which will probably mirror what the fans see ,IMHO a good start would see Abs recalled in Jan because we need a couple of his type to fight our way up the table. As far as i am concerned Tis is immune from any blame for our predicament at this stage, judge him after Jan window and subsequent form from then on, Somehow the players we currently have have to scramble enough points to keep us in touch with those above then we can kick on to better times. The good news after Gills is we are no worse off than before kick off and best of all and more important than anything else is the breakthrough on the Covid Vaccine! Stay safe Gas eds, salvation is in hand both on and off the pitch, we just have to keep the faith, up the Rovers!
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Post by theduke on Dec 3, 2020 19:20:26 GMT
And it should be pointed out that some of the very few experienced heads (Ehmer, Baldwin) which were brought in have been nothing less than horrendous to date.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Dec 3, 2020 19:24:19 GMT
We are in a relegation struggle no doubt. This team is technically sound but mentally weak. It's very fragile and the slightest setback seems to unhinge the entire team. There is no evident leadershio and the net result is chaos.
We will probably limp along in December and then PT needs to work his magic in the transfer window. Unless radical changes are made, we can start dusting off the handbook of L2 clubs for next season.
What a shambles. The Garner experiment has been disastrous.
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Post by LJG on Dec 4, 2020 9:27:12 GMT
chewbacca, The problem is not all down to comparing new players v who they replaced- the problem is replacing them all at once.If you replaced Grant with Ollie Clarke you would not improve this team. if however you put JCH in THIS team you would improve it immediately because of the effect a natural goalscorer would have on the team and individual performances. I would go as far as to say that Clarke Harris would have adde4d 12-15 points on to our total so far- that is how important a goalscorer is when you find one and 1.5 million is no good whatsoever if you don't invest at least some of it in a replacement. The problem with our "Club blueprint" is to make money on players signed is fine BUT you must INVEST some of that money in QUALITY replacements that can perform now not in three years time! Still managed a little dig at Ollie Clarke.
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Post by xenongas on Dec 4, 2020 10:19:58 GMT
And it should be pointed out that some of the very few experienced heads (Ehmer, Baldwin) which were brought in have been nothing less than horrendous to date. I find this even more concerning that the striker issue to be honest. Ehmer was brought in as a captain but I haven't seen that leadership thus far. Maybe he is a player that feeds off the atmosphere so hasn't been at it in the empty stadiums. We had a unit of Craig, Kilgour, and Davies/Menayese last year that took responsibility and looked stronger than the sum of their parts. I still see our current CBs as individual players and not a unit. Someone needs to step up and get them working together on the pitch and my hopes were/are pinned on Ehmer for that.
The imbalance with small striker group is for sure a problem. But I would also say in recent history we have been overly reliant on one man to get the bulk of our goals (JCH obviously, even Harrison the season he left). Name one successful "second" striker recently. Hanlan is our main striker and I'm OK with that but he has been isolated in a lot of games (similar to many games JCH played) and needs help. We have started to create more chances now, with Oztumer and Nicholson pivotal to this. But in the Gillingham game most of our chances completely bypassed Hanlan so I would like to see him get more involved and this will in turn boost his scoring. As much as I like our lads up top, we can't be reliant only on them this season. Using the starts to goals ratio from League One games so far, Hanlan is due around 10 goals and Daly 17 over the course of the season (Daly has less starts so far but has scored the same number of league goals as Hanlan - 3). So everyone needs to start taking their chances - I'm talking about the attacking midfielders here.
Of course I would like a new striker to come in and bag 15 goals after christmas. But I also think it is easy to get carried away with that idea and dismiss what we have and as hard as it is to get a top striker in the summer - it is 3x harder in January. The Ayunga injury was/is very unlucky but we should have another back up in the wings, Walker is not league ready yet.
I've got carried away here but my overall point is I think now chances are being created more regularly, the goals will come. And with that comes safety which I still believe we should get. My bigger concern looking down the table is how games that are tight are turning quickly into 2-, 3-, or 4-0s against. This comes from the invidual defensive errors and the lack of a cohesive unit at the back. Ehmer shares the majority of this disappointment so far as captain and leader of the back line.
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Post by LJG on Dec 4, 2020 10:37:23 GMT
I'm not sure what PT will do to sort the team out -- But i do have some questions/observations :- 1.When Aguna & Daley are fit . They need to be paired together up front . ( A bit like Warboys/Bannister ) 2. Hanlon to play just wide of them 3. Oztumer & Nicholson have to retain their places. 4. After a good game -- What has happened to Barret ? 5. Grant needs to be rested. 6. If JML is not going to be considered -- Try and send back to parent club 7. Come Jan a New striker to be signed and try and loan out Kelly,Harries & Upson 8. Prey.Like a field mouse to a sparrow hawk or a gazelle to a cheetah? Yes we certainly seem like something weak and without sharp teeth or claws that the rest of the teams in the division will be looking to cut away from the pack and pick off.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 10:53:45 GMT
And it should be pointed out that some of the very few experienced heads (Ehmer, Baldwin) which were brought in have been nothing less than horrendous to date. I find this even more concerning that the striker issue to be honest. Ehmer was brought in as a captain but I haven't seen that leadership thus far. Maybe he is a player that feeds off the atmosphere so hasn't been at it in the empty stadiums. We had a unit of Craig, Kilgour, and Davies/Menayese last year that took responsibility and looked stronger than the sum of their parts. I still see our current CBs as individual players and not a unit. Someone needs to step up and get them working together on the pitch and my hopes were/are pinned on Ehmer for that.
The imbalance with small striker group is for sure a problem. But I would also say in recent history we have been overly reliant on one man to get the bulk of our goals (JCH obviously, even Harrison the season he left). Name one successful "second" striker recently. Hanlan is our main striker and I'm OK with that but he has been isolated in a lot of games (similar to many games JCH played) and needs help. We have started to create more chances now, with Oztumer and Nicholson pivotal to this. But in the Gillingham game most of our chances completely bypassed Hanlan so I would like to see him get more involved and this will in turn boost his scoring. As much as I like our lads up top, we can't be reliant only on them this season. Using the starts to goals ratio from League One games so far, Hanlan is due around 10 goals and Daly 17 over the course of the season (Daly has less starts so far but has scored the same number of league goals as Hanlan - 3). So everyone needs to start taking their chances - I'm talking about the attacking midfielders here.
Of course I would like a new striker to come in and bag 15 goals after christmas. But I also think it is easy to get carried away with that idea and dismiss what we have and as hard as it is to get a top striker in the summer - it is 3x harder in January. The Ayunga injury was/is very unlucky but we should have another back up in the wings, Walker is not league ready yet.
I've got carried away here but my overall point is I think now chances are being created more regularly, the goals will come. And with that comes safety which I still believe we should get. My bigger concern looking down the table is how games that are tight are turning quickly into 2-, 3-, or 4-0s against. This comes from the invidual defensive errors and the lack of a cohesive unit at the back. Ehmer shares the majority of this disappointment so far as captain and leader of the back line.
I think people over-estimate JCH’s importance in the season before Coughlan left, he was injured for two months and that didn’t stop our momentum or stop us scoring at all. We had goals in other areas of the team, the much maligned Smith scored and we had goals in the midfield, probably not least because we were actively encouraged as a team to not Fanny about and shoot when able. I don’t believe it’s coincidence that we have moved so far away from that philosophy whilst falling from near the top to near the bottom. Halifax raises a good point - how many of these players were actually scouted in person? Hmm...
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