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Post by wrongsideoftheriver on Mar 4, 2022 23:26:19 GMT
And I’d just like to state as a part time poster and long time reader that pirate you spout some absolute nonsense! Worlds falling apart infront of our eyes! And I for one am absolutely terrified what faces us and the last thing we need is your endless sh**e that you post He’s the worst but there are a few other bad eggs / bad actors / idiots who post absolute sh**e on here as well. Not often I agree with you but I fear what’s ahead of us is bigger than any petty forum arguments or political differences. The one thing I’ll stand strong on is the last thing we need now is stupid individuals spouting absolute nonsense with endless twittter links!. We need unity right now not in-house fighting. Keeping to a part time poster I’ll keep my message short and simple - every stay safe, hope for the best and best wishes to any effected in this mess!.
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Post by yattongas on Mar 4, 2022 23:28:25 GMT
He’s the worst but there are a few other bad eggs / bad actors / idiots who post absolute sh**e on here as well. Not often I agree with you but I fear what’s ahead of us is bigger than any petty forum arguments or political differences. The one thing I’ll stand strong on is the last thing we need now is stupid individuals spouting absolute nonsense with endless twittter links!. We need unity right now not in-house fighting. Keeping to a part time poster I’ll keep my message short and simple - every stay safe, hope for the best and best wishes to any effected in this mess!. Not often you agree with me ! What? 😉
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Post by wrongsideoftheriver on Mar 4, 2022 23:30:31 GMT
Not often I agree with you but I fear what’s ahead of us is bigger than any petty forum arguments or political differences. The one thing I’ll stand strong on is the last thing we need now is stupid individuals spouting absolute nonsense with endless twittter links!. We need unity right now not in-house fighting. Keeping to a part time poster I’ll keep my message short and simple - every stay safe, hope for the best and best wishes to any effected in this mess!. Not often you agree with me ! What? 😉 [br Still think your a lefty bellend
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Post by yattongas on Mar 4, 2022 23:31:28 GMT
Not often you agree with me ! What? 😉 [br Still think your a lefty bellend Oi !
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 4, 2022 23:34:28 GMT
You really believe that, don't you. So, Putin is the victim in a US plot? Won't pig fat clog up the rifles or burn in the chamber causing malfunction? Edit: It's for propaganda, don't assume it's widespread. Again, please explain how the president was ousted in a coup. The backdrop to the coup cannot be understood without looking at the U.S. strategy to open Ukrainian markets to foreign investors and give control of its economy to giant multinational corporations. After early steps to integrate with the West, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych turned against these changes and ended trade integration talks with the European Union. Months before his overthrow, he restarted economic negotiations with Russia, in a major snub to the Western economic sphere. The IMF had long planned to implement a series of economic reforms to make the country more attractive to investors. The reforms included cutting wage controls (i.e., lowering wages), reforming and reducing health and education sectors (which made up the bulk of employment in Ukraine), and cutting natural gas subsidies to Ukrainian citizens that made energy affordable to the general public. Coup plotters like Victoria Nuland repeatedly stressed the need for the Ukrainian government to enact the “necessary” reforms. After the 2014 coup, the new government quickly restarted the EU deal. After cutting heating subsidies in half, it secured a $27 billion commitment from the IMF. The U.S. was fueling anti-government sentiment through mechanisms like the National Endowment for Democracy. As I previously highlighted, the National Endowment for Democracy president Carl Gershman wrote a piece in the Washington Post that described Ukraine as the “biggest prize” in the East/West rivalry. After the Obama administration, Nuland joined the National Endowment for Democracy board of directors before returning to the State Department in the Biden administration as undersecretary of state for political affairs. The NED board of directors also includes Elliott Abrams, whose record runs from the Iran/Contra affair in the ’80s to the Trump administration’s effort to overthrow the Venezuelan government. He also happens to be a signatory to the Project for a New American Century, co-founded by Victoria Nuland's husband Robert Kagan. The Washington Post‘s David Ignatius once wrote that the National Endowment for Democracy organization functions by “doing in public what the CIA used to do in private.” All I have posted you choose to pick up on the point about pig fat? I think that could be construed as a straw man argument. Alas, It is indeed probably just propaganda, but shows the mindset of these idiotic and dangerous Azov bigots. As British-Pakistani comedian Tez Ilyas said in a tweet, “Being killed by a lard covered bullet doesn’t disqualify one from entering Muslim heaven. Far-right racists made that up and the official Ukrainian National Guard is endorsing it. These are the forces my Foreign Secretary wants British civilians to go fight with?” You brought up the pig fat bit, I merely commented as it's ridiculous, it's obviously aimed to cause anger. I didn't comment on the rest because quite frankly it's a waste of my time. Out of all that has happened you still concentrate on American or Israeli involvement yet no word of condemnation on what Putin has done. The ousting of the Ukrainian president wasn't a coup, he left when the Ukrainian parliament was going to impeach him following the deaths of innocent civilians. As he couldn't do his job they replaced him and there have been elections since to validate the current President. The Azov Battalion is not representative of Ukraine, far right parties have something like 2% of the seats in parliament. Hardly anything and probably comparable to other countries including Russia. No word about Chechnya, where Russia assassinated the leader and replaced him with their own choice. Was that not a coup? No real comment on the Chechen mercenaries and their brutal tactics. No mention of the indiscriminate bombing of Ukraine cities or the 1 million refugees. You've mentioned Isreal in Syria and the bombing in Yemen elsewhere, terrible events that are sickening. Yet no mention of the Russian air force levelling Aleppo. At least 14 British citizens with links to Russia have died in suspicious circumstances in the UK, one by radioactive polonium taken around the streets of London and another death and attempted murder of two others by biological agents in Salisbury. The invasion of Crimea and 14,000 deaths in the east with the fermenting of unrest there. All this in breach of the Budapest agreement to respect existing borders. It's all very well looking for ghosts in the shadows, but invariably once you look, there is nothing actually there. Putin has chosen to invade, there was no reason to do so despite what he says. Just tonight he's banned independent reporting, prevented Twitter and Facebook access and is clamping down on dissent. He has ordered 100,000 soldiers to kill with probably thousands dead. It's appalling, unjustified, illegal and immoral. Don't fall for the Kremlin's narrative, it does you no favours. Do us all a favour, please confirm that you think the invasion is wrong, without caveat.
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Post by wrongsideoftheriver on Mar 4, 2022 23:34:48 GMT
I will add by the way - fair play on housing a refugee Ukrainian
Wanted to do something similar myself but couldn’t get the wife to agree on it.
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 4, 2022 23:36:19 GMT
And I’d just like to state as a part time poster and long time reader that pirate you spout some absolute nonsense! Worlds falling apart infront of our eyes! And I for one am absolutely terrified what faces us and the last thing we need is your endless sh**e that you post He’s the worst but there are a few other bad eggs / bad actors / idiots who post absolute sh**e on here as well. Sorry about that 😘
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Post by yattongas on Mar 4, 2022 23:37:41 GMT
I will add by the way - fair play on housing a refugee Ukrainian Wanted to do something similar myself but couldn’t get the wife to agree on it. To be fair it was the wife who suggested / insisted we offer up our spare room . Think we’ve all gotta do our bit , be it big or small .
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Post by yattongas on Mar 4, 2022 23:43:48 GMT
The backdrop to the coup cannot be understood without looking at the U.S. strategy to open Ukrainian markets to foreign investors and give control of its economy to giant multinational corporations. After early steps to integrate with the West, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych turned against these changes and ended trade integration talks with the European Union. Months before his overthrow, he restarted economic negotiations with Russia, in a major snub to the Western economic sphere. The IMF had long planned to implement a series of economic reforms to make the country more attractive to investors. The reforms included cutting wage controls (i.e., lowering wages), reforming and reducing health and education sectors (which made up the bulk of employment in Ukraine), and cutting natural gas subsidies to Ukrainian citizens that made energy affordable to the general public. Coup plotters like Victoria Nuland repeatedly stressed the need for the Ukrainian government to enact the “necessary” reforms. After the 2014 coup, the new government quickly restarted the EU deal. After cutting heating subsidies in half, it secured a $27 billion commitment from the IMF. The U.S. was fueling anti-government sentiment through mechanisms like the National Endowment for Democracy. As I previously highlighted, the National Endowment for Democracy president Carl Gershman wrote a piece in the Washington Post that described Ukraine as the “biggest prize” in the East/West rivalry. After the Obama administration, Nuland joined the National Endowment for Democracy board of directors before returning to the State Department in the Biden administration as undersecretary of state for political affairs. The NED board of directors also includes Elliott Abrams, whose record runs from the Iran/Contra affair in the ’80s to the Trump administration’s effort to overthrow the Venezuelan government. He also happens to be a signatory to the Project for a New American Century, co-founded by Victoria Nuland's husband Robert Kagan. The Washington Post‘s David Ignatius once wrote that the National Endowment for Democracy organization functions by “doing in public what the CIA used to do in private.” All I have posted you choose to pick up on the point about pig fat? I think that could be construed as a straw man argument. Alas, It is indeed probably just propaganda, but shows the mindset of these idiotic and dangerous Azov bigots. As British-Pakistani comedian Tez Ilyas said in a tweet, “Being killed by a lard covered bullet doesn’t disqualify one from entering Muslim heaven. Far-right racists made that up and the official Ukrainian National Guard is endorsing it. These are the forces my Foreign Secretary wants British civilians to go fight with?” You brought up the pig fat bit, I merely commented as it's ridiculous, it's obviously aimed to cause anger. I didn't comment on the rest because quite frankly it's a waste of my time. Out of all that has happened you still concentrate on American or Israeli involvement yet no word of condemnation on what Putin has done. The ousting of the Ukrainian president wasn't a coup, he left when the Ukrainian parliament was going to impeach him following the deaths of innocent civilians. As he couldn't do his job they replaced him and there have been elections since to validate the current President. The Azov Battalion is not representative of Ukraine, far right parties have something like 2% of the seats in parliament. Hardly anything and probably comparable to other countries including Russia. No word about Chechnya, where Russia assassinated the leader and replaced him with their own choice. Was that not a coup? No real comment on the Chechen mercenaries and their brutal tactics. No mention of the indiscriminate bombing of Ukraine cities or the 1 million refugees. You've mentioned Isreal in Syria and the bombing in Yemen elsewhere, terrible events that are sickening. Yet no mention of the Russian air force levelling Aleppo. At least 14 British citizens with links to Russia have died in suspicious circumstances in the UK, one by radioactive polonium taken around the streets of London and another death and attempted murder of two others by biological agents in Salisbury. The invasion of Crimea and 14,000 deaths in the east with the fermenting of unrest there. All this in breach of the Budapest agreement to respect existing borders. It's all very well looking for ghosts in the shadows, but invariably once you look, there is nothing actually there. Putin has chosen to invade, there was no reason to do so despite what he says. Just tonight he's banned independent reporting, prevented Twitter and Facebook access and is clamping down on dissent. He has ordered 100,000 soldiers to kill with probably thousands dead. It's appalling, unjustified, illegal and immoral. Don't fall for the Kremlin's narrative, it does you no favours. Do us all a favour, please confirm that you think the invasion is wrong, without caveat. 👏
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Post by wrongsideoftheriver on Mar 5, 2022 0:01:42 GMT
I will add by the way - fair play on housing a refugee Ukrainian Wanted to do something similar myself but couldn’t get the wife to agree on it. To be fair it was the wife who suggested / insisted we offer up our spare room . Think we’ve all gotta do our bit , be it big or small . I’ve been extremely lucky in life to have a secured a well paid job and own my own house at relatively young age which by the way is a million miles away from what I thought life would be growing up on council estate with a average education and no higher end contact for a start up in life. (Parents didn’t give any hand outs!) Often felt lucky with the job offer I had fairly young in life from a boss who only give me the job on my life background on a lucky interview which is why I was willing to offer A spare room. As said wife didn’t feel the same but I do blame that on up bringings
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Post by Gastafari on Mar 5, 2022 0:59:56 GMT
And I’d just like to state as a part time poster and long time reader that pirate you spout some absolute nonsense! Worlds falling apart infront of our eyes! And I for one am absolutely terrified what faces us and the last thing we need is your endless sh**e that you post He’s the worst but there are a few other bad eggs / bad actors / idiots who post absolute sh**e on here as well. I hope you're including yourself on that list!
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Post by yattongas on Mar 5, 2022 6:27:19 GMT
He’s the worst but there are a few other bad eggs / bad actors / idiots who post absolute sh**e on here as well. I hope you're including yourself on that list! And right on cue…… up pops Mr 100% wrong . 🙄
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Post by oldie on Mar 5, 2022 7:36:05 GMT
I hope you're including yourself on that list! And right on cue…… up pops Mr 100% wrong . 🙄 😱😂
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,461
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Post by pirate on Mar 5, 2022 9:59:11 GMT
The backdrop to the coup cannot be understood without looking at the U.S. strategy to open Ukrainian markets to foreign investors and give control of its economy to giant multinational corporations. After early steps to integrate with the West, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych turned against these changes and ended trade integration talks with the European Union. Months before his overthrow, he restarted economic negotiations with Russia, in a major snub to the Western economic sphere. The IMF had long planned to implement a series of economic reforms to make the country more attractive to investors. The reforms included cutting wage controls (i.e., lowering wages), reforming and reducing health and education sectors (which made up the bulk of employment in Ukraine), and cutting natural gas subsidies to Ukrainian citizens that made energy affordable to the general public. Coup plotters like Victoria Nuland repeatedly stressed the need for the Ukrainian government to enact the “necessary” reforms. After the 2014 coup, the new government quickly restarted the EU deal. After cutting heating subsidies in half, it secured a $27 billion commitment from the IMF. The U.S. was fueling anti-government sentiment through mechanisms like the National Endowment for Democracy. As I previously highlighted, the National Endowment for Democracy president Carl Gershman wrote a piece in the Washington Post that described Ukraine as the “biggest prize” in the East/West rivalry. After the Obama administration, Nuland joined the National Endowment for Democracy board of directors before returning to the State Department in the Biden administration as undersecretary of state for political affairs. The NED board of directors also includes Elliott Abrams, whose record runs from the Iran/Contra affair in the ’80s to the Trump administration’s effort to overthrow the Venezuelan government. He also happens to be a signatory to the Project for a New American Century, co-founded by Victoria Nuland's husband Robert Kagan. The Washington Post‘s David Ignatius once wrote that the National Endowment for Democracy organization functions by “doing in public what the CIA used to do in private.” All I have posted you choose to pick up on the point about pig fat? I think that could be construed as a straw man argument. Alas, It is indeed probably just propaganda, but shows the mindset of these idiotic and dangerous Azov bigots. As British-Pakistani comedian Tez Ilyas said in a tweet, “Being killed by a lard covered bullet doesn’t disqualify one from entering Muslim heaven. Far-right racists made that up and the official Ukrainian National Guard is endorsing it. These are the forces my Foreign Secretary wants British civilians to go fight with?” Let me get this straight. You are contending that all those people killed during the demonstrations against Yanukovych were actually under the control of CIA operatives? That it was a coup and not a popular uprising? That after he was kicked out the development of Ukraine to a point where it appears an awful lot of them appear to have been happy with the development, is not true? That in fact they welcome the Russians to free them from this imposed western led tyranny? Is that what you contending? I'm sure many legitimate protesters were fed up with Yanukovych’s rule and the allegations of corruption and creeping authoritarianism etc, but the protests were piggybacked on by mercenaries, extremists, agent provocateurs and neo-nazis whose violence would eventually lead to Yanukovych’s downfall. There is no doubt the US had been meddling in the country for years with "$5 billion invested" (Nuland quote) and the likes of the National Endowment for Democracy and other NGO's "doing in public what the CIA used to do in private". Not to mention the CIA themselves actually training Ukrainian special forces and intelligence officers since at least 2015.
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,461
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Post by pirate on Mar 5, 2022 10:00:06 GMT
The backdrop to the coup cannot be understood without looking at the U.S. strategy to open Ukrainian markets to foreign investors and give control of its economy to giant multinational corporations. After early steps to integrate with the West, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych turned against these changes and ended trade integration talks with the European Union. Months before his overthrow, he restarted economic negotiations with Russia, in a major snub to the Western economic sphere. The IMF had long planned to implement a series of economic reforms to make the country more attractive to investors. The reforms included cutting wage controls (i.e., lowering wages), reforming and reducing health and education sectors (which made up the bulk of employment in Ukraine), and cutting natural gas subsidies to Ukrainian citizens that made energy affordable to the general public. Coup plotters like Victoria Nuland repeatedly stressed the need for the Ukrainian government to enact the “necessary” reforms. After the 2014 coup, the new government quickly restarted the EU deal. After cutting heating subsidies in half, it secured a $27 billion commitment from the IMF. The U.S. was fueling anti-government sentiment through mechanisms like the National Endowment for Democracy. As I previously highlighted, the National Endowment for Democracy president Carl Gershman wrote a piece in the Washington Post that described Ukraine as the “biggest prize” in the East/West rivalry. After the Obama administration, Nuland joined the National Endowment for Democracy board of directors before returning to the State Department in the Biden administration as undersecretary of state for political affairs. The NED board of directors also includes Elliott Abrams, whose record runs from the Iran/Contra affair in the ’80s to the Trump administration’s effort to overthrow the Venezuelan government. He also happens to be a signatory to the Project for a New American Century, co-founded by Victoria Nuland's husband Robert Kagan. The Washington Post‘s David Ignatius once wrote that the National Endowment for Democracy organization functions by “doing in public what the CIA used to do in private.” All I have posted you choose to pick up on the point about pig fat? I think that could be construed as a straw man argument. Alas, It is indeed probably just propaganda, but shows the mindset of these idiotic and dangerous Azov bigots. As British-Pakistani comedian Tez Ilyas said in a tweet, “Being killed by a lard covered bullet doesn’t disqualify one from entering Muslim heaven. Far-right racists made that up and the official Ukrainian National Guard is endorsing it. These are the forces my Foreign Secretary wants British civilians to go fight with?” You brought up the pig fat bit, I merely commented as it's ridiculous, it's obviously aimed to cause anger. I didn't comment on the rest because quite frankly it's a waste of my time. Out of all that has happened you still concentrate on American or Israeli involvement yet no word of condemnation on what Putin has done. The ousting of the Ukrainian president wasn't a coup, he left when the Ukrainian parliament was going to impeach him following the deaths of innocent civilians. As he couldn't do his job they replaced him and there have been elections since to validate the current President. The Azov Battalion is not representative of Ukraine, far right parties have something like 2% of the seats in parliament. Hardly anything and probably comparable to other countries including Russia. No word about Chechnya, where Russia assassinated the leader and replaced him with their own choice. Was that not a coup? No real comment on the Chechen mercenaries and their brutal tactics. No mention of the indiscriminate bombing of Ukraine cities or the 1 million refugees. You've mentioned Isreal in Syria and the bombing in Yemen elsewhere, terrible events that are sickening. Yet no mention of the Russian air force levelling Aleppo. At least 14 British citizens with links to Russia have died in suspicious circumstances in the UK, one by radioactive polonium taken around the streets of London and another death and attempted murder of two others by biological agents in Salisbury. The invasion of Crimea and 14,000 deaths in the east with the fermenting of unrest there. All this in breach of the Budapest agreement to respect existing borders. It's all very well looking for ghosts in the shadows, but invariably once you look, there is nothing actually there. Putin has chosen to invade, there was no reason to do so despite what he says. Just tonight he's banned independent reporting, prevented Twitter and Facebook access and is clamping down on dissent. He has ordered 100,000 soldiers to kill with probably thousands dead. It's appalling, unjustified, illegal and immoral. Don't fall for the Kremlin's narrative, it does you no favours. Do us all a favour, please confirm that you think the invasion is wrong, without caveat. Yes, they did indeed replace him...with Victoria Nuland's man "Yats"! Let me make it clear, I'm certainly no fan or apologist for the tyrant Putin and think the invasion is wrong, but I'm not willing to ignore some of the events that lead up to the current crisis. The Azov Battalion is certainly representative of some of the fighters over there during the past 8 years with as many as THIRTY militias reported, including far-right and neo-nazi elements within the likes of Right Sektor, Aidar, Donbass, Dnepr-1 and Dnepr-2 with many of them in part funded by Igor Kolomoisky. I'd love to know how you would respond with neo-nazis and white supremacists committing "war crimes", displacing residents following the looting of their civilian properties and murdering, torturing and raping your people? It was also revealed back in January how the CIA has been training Ukrainian special forces and intelligence officers at a secret facility in the U.S. since at least 2015. As part of this expanded anti-Russia effort, CIA Ground Branch paramilitaries also started traveling to the front in eastern Ukraine 'to advise' their counterparts there, according to a half-dozen former officials. One person familiar with the program put it bluntly. “The United States is training an insurgency,” said a former CIA official, adding that the program has taught the Ukrainians how “to kill Russians.”
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,461
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Post by pirate on Mar 5, 2022 10:22:50 GMT
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Post by oldie on Mar 5, 2022 11:54:41 GMT
Let me get this straight. You are contending that all those people killed during the demonstrations against Yanukovych were actually under the control of CIA operatives? That it was a coup and not a popular uprising? That after he was kicked out the development of Ukraine to a point where it appears an awful lot of them appear to have been happy with the development, is not true? That in fact they welcome the Russians to free them from this imposed western led tyranny? Is that what you contending? I'm sure many legitimate protesters were fed up with Yanukovych’s rule and the allegations of corruption and creeping authoritarianism etc, but the protests were piggybacked on by mercenaries, extremists, agent provocateurs and neo-nazis whose violence would eventually lead to Yanukovych’s downfall. There is no doubt the US had been meddling in the country for years with "$5 billion invested" (Nuland quote) and the likes of the National Endowment for Democracy and other NGO's "doing in public what the CIA used to do in private". Not to mention the CIA themselves actually training Ukrainian special forces and intelligence officers since at least 2015. " I'm sure many legitimate protesters were fed up with Yanukovych’s rule and the allegations of corruption and creeping authoritarianism etc, but the protests were piggybacked on by mercenaries, extremists, agent provocateurs and neo-nazis whose violence would eventually lead to Yanukovych’s downfall." Thanks to Yatton I watched "Winter on Fire" It reminded me of what happened. Looking at the crowds there, in there tens of thousands, unless they were paid extras in a fictional account, the protest looked awfully authentic to me. The police (or others) killing people looked very real as well. How the hell you could dare deflect from Putin's fascist intent and murder of Ukranians like this shocks me. I don't always agree with you but some of your points are not always without foundation. But now you are wilfully aiding and abetting fascism. Shame on you. Purdown, I see you liked his post. Last year I supported your actions in the Kill the Bill protests in Bristol. Now you too shock me. Shame on you also. Are you both confused, deluded or is there some other burning hatred which drives you?
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Post by baggins on Mar 5, 2022 12:32:52 GMT
Let's face it, Ukraine will put up one hell of a fight but will eventually fall. Until Putin makes the mistake of going for a NATO Country he'll take what he wants.
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Post by oldie on Mar 5, 2022 12:39:41 GMT
Let's face it, Ukraine will put up one hell of a fight but will eventually fall. Until Putin makes the mistake of going for a NATO Country he'll take what he wants. It's a country of 40million people. That's one hell of an insurgency to contain. The stark choice for Putin will be what to do about a world of angry nations supplying a highly motivated and United Ukrainian resistance. It's going to be awful but he will be defeated.
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Post by trevorgas on Mar 5, 2022 12:41:59 GMT
Let's face it, Ukraine will put up one hell of a fight but will eventually fall. Until Putin makes the mistake of going for a NATO Country he'll take what he wants. He may take the big centres of population however, Ukraine is a big Country and as such the Russians will be subject to a continual insurgency by well armed and motivated Ukrainians If Putin was such a great student of history he would understand that this is what exactly happened to the German Army in WW2 and the Russians in Afghanistan and whilst it may take time I see the Russians ultimately losing and living with an economy that's fooked.
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