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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2022 12:11:57 GMT
RT is not really any different than the BBC or any other state controlled media. It's not as simple as good/bad or cowboys/Indians though is it? Personally I'd put Putin in the same camp as Johnson, trump, biden and most other liberal leaders - their only purpose is to keep the wealthy happy. Obviously Putin is more of a monarch than other 'world' leaders. So the BBC is the same as RT and Putin is like a liberal leader? Sorry Grover, you've really lost me. Not a problem mate. Simply saying that they serve the same masters, wealthy elites. |
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Post by baggins on Mar 29, 2022 12:29:03 GMT
So the BBC is the same as RT and Putin is like a liberal leader? Sorry Grover, you've really lost me. Not a problem mate. Simply saying that they serve the same masters, wealthy elites. Like they do here. |
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Post by oldie on Mar 29, 2022 12:41:37 GMT
He appears to be an absolutist Stuart. Seems that way which is quite ironic bearing in mind he talks about not wanting things seen black and white. Not sure he knows himself |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2022 12:46:04 GMT
So the BBC is the same as RT and Putin is like a liberal leader? Sorry Grover, you've really lost me. He appears to be an absolutist Stuart. What exactly do you mean by that? |
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Post by blueridge on Mar 29, 2022 13:08:19 GMT
Seems that way which is quite ironic bearing in mind he talks about not wanting things seen black and white. Not sure he knows himself A 'sciolist' perhaps? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2022 13:15:42 GMT
Obviously through a Russian lens. Same as you'd see it through a liberal western lens. Like I said, it's interesting to see the view of all sides to be able to see the event as a whole. Not just the oldie style of this man bad, this man good. Being lied to twice does not make you more informed. I'm not coming from an egotistical angle. I'm not saying im right, everyone else is wrong. Just saying it's good to get as much info as possible on a subject, wether it's propaganda or not can not be known. It's a discussion not an argument. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2022 13:20:01 GMT
Not sure he knows himself A 'sciolist' perhaps? Here he is! Im happy to accept I'm absolutely stupid in terms of knowing everything. As should everyone else. That's why I find it interesting when some think that they have all the facts & knowledge. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 29, 2022 13:51:38 GMT
Here he is! Im happy to accept I'm absolutely stupid in terms of knowing everything. As should everyone else. That's why I find it interesting when some think that they have all the facts & knowledge. Not sure anyone here is claiming to know everything, there is a world of difference between knowing somethings and debating them and thinking that because you don't know everything that you can't. Similarly with the topic here, because both sides are guilty of irregularities doesn't equate that those irregularities are comparable. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 9:33:15 GMT
If the prisoners that zalenski released for combat, and the civilians he gave arms to have committed war crimes against innocent people...
Is that acceptable in 'war' situations?
There have been lots of reports of lawlessness around Ukraine and innocent civilians being used as tethered goats...
Is that now considered just a sad fact of 'war'?
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 30, 2022 9:53:40 GMT
If the prisoners that zalenski released for combat, and the civilians he gave arms to have committed war crimes against innocent people... Is that acceptable in 'war' situations? There have been lots of reports of lawlessness around Ukraine and innocent civilians being used as tethered goats... Is that now considered just a sad fact of 'war'? If war crimes have been committed then they have to be investigated and prosecutions brought, no matter which side they are on. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 10:08:29 GMT
If the prisoners that zalenski released for combat, and the civilians he gave arms to have committed war crimes against innocent people... Is that acceptable in 'war' situations? There have been lots of reports of lawlessness around Ukraine and innocent civilians being used as tethered goats... Is that now considered just a sad fact of 'war'? If war crimes have been committed then they have to be investigated and prosecutions brought, no matter which side they are on. For the 'winner' or most powerful to decide. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 30, 2022 10:17:26 GMT
If war crimes have been committed then they have to be investigated and prosecutions brought, no matter which side they are on. For the 'winner' or most powerful to decide. Neither, The Hague/ICC tends to be the main investigation and court body. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 10:36:12 GMT
For the 'winner' or most powerful to decide. Neither, The Hague/ICC tends to be the main investigation and court body. Must have missed Blair and many US officials being tried there? Westerners usually end up in Hollywood instead of the Hague. Did you see American Sniper? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 30, 2022 10:53:25 GMT
Neither, The Hague/ICC tends to be the main investigation and court body. Must have missed Blair and many US officials being tried there? Westerners usually end up in Hollywood instead of the Hague. Did you see American Sniper? Not seen the film. With regards to the ICC, I wouldn't disagree Blair etc al should be investigated but that doesn’t stop investing or invalidate other events. At the risk of 'Whataboutery', you'd welcome the two named Russians being questioned by the police over the Salisbury poisonings? Putin says no so nothing happens. I suspect we both agree it tends to be the minions who get punished while others escape prosecution, however if they chose to 'pull the trigger' knowing they were wrong then they should be. Sadly war brings out the worst in humanity as well as some of the best. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 11:07:59 GMT
Must have missed Blair and many US officials being tried there? Westerners usually end up in Hollywood instead of the Hague. Did you see American Sniper? Not seen the film. With regards to the ICC, I wouldn't disagree Blair etc al should be investigated but that doesn’t stop investing or invalidate other events. At the risk of 'Whataboutery', you'd welcome the two named Russians being questioned by the police over the Salisbury poisonings? Putin says no so nothing happens. I suspect we both agree it tends to be the minions who get punished while others escape prosecution, however if they chose to 'pull the trigger' knowing they were wrong then they should be. Sadly war brings out the worst in humanity as well as some of the best. I wouldnt waste your time watching it. Salisbury was espionage that happens everyday around the globe, UK are leading experts in it. Espionage is needed to keep liberalism grinding away, so rarely has any repercussions, no matter how bad the event it leads to. It gets covered up. Someone even posted a Bellingcat story the other day... That is basically MI5/6s' media outlet. Most Nazis after ww2 were taken in by Western governments for their expertise weren't they. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 30, 2022 11:17:21 GMT
Not seen the film. With regards to the ICC, I wouldn't disagree Blair etc al should be investigated but that doesn’t stop investing or invalidate other events. At the risk of 'Whataboutery', you'd welcome the two named Russians being questioned by the police over the Salisbury poisonings? Putin says no so nothing happens. I suspect we both agree it tends to be the minions who get punished while others escape prosecution, however if they chose to 'pull the trigger' knowing they were wrong then they should be. Sadly war brings out the worst in humanity as well as some of the best. I wouldnt waste your time watching it. Salisbury was espionage that happens everyday around the globe, UK are leading experts in it. Espionage is needed to keep liberalism grinding away, so rarely has any repercussions, no matter how bad the event it leads to. It gets covered up. Someone even posted a Bellingcat story the other day... That is basically MI5/6s' media outlet. Most Nazis after ww2 were taken in by Western governments for their expertise weren't they. Nice to know that it is our fault Putin ordered a chemical weapons attack on Wiltshire then. What about plutonium being used in London? I appreciate we aren't saints but I hope you aren't trying to excuse what happened. What sources do you have for the tethered goat story? |
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Post by baggins on Mar 30, 2022 11:21:47 GMT
Not seen the film. With regards to the ICC, I wouldn't disagree Blair etc al should be investigated but that doesn’t stop investing or invalidate other events. At the risk of 'Whataboutery', you'd welcome the two named Russians being questioned by the police over the Salisbury poisonings? Putin says no so nothing happens. I suspect we both agree it tends to be the minions who get punished while others escape prosecution, however if they chose to 'pull the trigger' knowing they were wrong then they should be. Sadly war brings out the worst in humanity as well as some of the best. I wouldnt waste your time watching it. Salisbury was espionage that happens everyday around the globe, UK are leading experts in it. Espionage is needed to keep liberalism grinding away, so rarely has any repercussions, no matter how bad the event it leads to. It gets covered up. Someone even posted a Bellingcat story the other day... That is basically MI5/6s' media outlet. Most Nazis after ww2 were taken in by Western governments for their expertise weren't they. Not a great film. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 11:37:12 GMT
I wouldnt waste your time watching it. Salisbury was espionage that happens everyday around the globe, UK are leading experts in it. Espionage is needed to keep liberalism grinding away, so rarely has any repercussions, no matter how bad the event it leads to. It gets covered up. Someone even posted a Bellingcat story the other day... That is basically MI5/6s' media outlet. Most Nazis after ww2 were taken in by Western governments for their expertise weren't they. Nice to know that it is our fault Putin ordered a chemical weapons attack on Wiltshire then. What about plutonium being used in London? I appreciate we aren't saints but I hope you aren't trying to excuse what happened. What sources do you have for the tethered goat story? I'm as anti-war as you could imagine. I'd condone any violence on innocents... But like I said, governments use deadly espionage to keep the order, UK are as guilty of that as the next government. Have seen drone footage of ukr troops locating weapons in residential areas and also reports of armed ukr civilians preventing unarmed civilians fleeing from cities, in order to stop Ru advances. Neutral sources all over Twitter & telegram. Plebs like us will only know the 'truth' in hindsight. Social media has just opened up more live viewpoints. Just realised tethered goats isn't really the phrase I meant! Just civilians had been ordered to stay in cities rather than leave. Tethered goat would be using civilians to snare russians wouldn't it. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 30, 2022 15:23:43 GMT
Nice to know that it is our fault Putin ordered a chemical weapons attack on Wiltshire then. What about plutonium being used in London? I appreciate we aren't saints but I hope you aren't trying to excuse what happened. What sources do you have for the tethered goat story? I'm as anti-war as you could imagine. I'd condone any violence on innocents... But like I said, governments use deadly espionage to keep the order, UK are as guilty of that as the next government. Have seen drone footage of ukr troops locating weapons in residential areas and also reports of armed ukr civilians preventing unarmed civilians fleeing from cities, in order to stop Ru advances. Neutral sources all over Twitter & telegram. Plebs like us will only know the 'truth' in hindsight. Social media has just opened up more live viewpoints. Just realised tethered goats isn't really the phrase I meant! Just civilians had been ordered to stay in cities rather than leave. Tethered goat would be using civilians to snare russians wouldn't it. I'm sure family of Dawn Sturgess and the good people of Salisbury will be reassured by their lives being affected by just espionage. 🧐 With regards to "neutral sources", firstly how do you know they are neutral and secondly how are you sure the footage is genuine and showing the whole story? Telegram is one of the few social media sites not banned in Russia and as such it attracts some extreme elements. I'm all for balance in a debate but balance doesn't mean 50:50 responsibility when it's more 90:10. |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 30, 2022 16:51:03 GMT
Not seen the film. With regards to the ICC, I wouldn't disagree Blair etc al should be investigated but that doesn’t stop investing or invalidate other events. At the risk of 'Whataboutery', you'd welcome the two named Russians being questioned by the police over the Salisbury poisonings? Putin says no so nothing happens. I suspect we both agree it tends to be the minions who get punished while others escape prosecution, however if they chose to 'pull the trigger' knowing they were wrong then they should be. Sadly war brings out the worst in humanity as well as some of the best. I wouldnt waste your time watching it. Salisbury was espionage that happens everyday around the globe, UK are leading experts in it. Espionage is needed to keep liberalism grinding away, so rarely has any repercussions, no matter how bad the event it leads to. It gets covered up. Someone even posted a Bellingcat story the other day... That is basically MI5/6s' media outlet. Most Nazis after ww2 were taken in by Western governments for their expertise weren't they. Bellingcat isn’t a mi5/6 media outlet …… unless you got some evidence to back up that claim ? |
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