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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 13:44:22 GMT
The war mongers are back, fresh from a million dead in the the gulf, they’re absolutely certain this time the TV is telling the truth. Oh familiar Logo, how I admire the mobilising force of thee. At least this time there’s no actual question of WMDs. Re WMDs, only one side is threatening to use them. Where did you find that out then? Have you read Russian media? Speak Russian? Ah wait; they banned accessing RT didn’t they - the hallmark of the good guys right there |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 6, 2023 13:49:03 GMT
Re WMDs, only one side is threatening to use them. Where did you find that out then? Have you read Russian media? Speak Russian? Ah wait; they banned accessing RT didn’t they - the hallmark of the good guys right there We used to have a poster here a few years ago called Gregory Stevens, he was a Putin apologist. What's your take on the issue? Bearing in mind you posted something about Ukrainian refugees on the Cost of Living thread a while back which was later deleted. |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 13:50:59 GMT
Where did you find that out then? Have you read Russian media? Speak Russian? Ah wait; they banned accessing RT didn’t they - the hallmark of the good guys right there We used to have a poster here a few years ago called Gregory Stevens, he was a Putin apologist. What's your take on the issue? Bearing in mind you posted something about Ukrainian refugees on the Cost of Living thread a while back which was later deleted. Why are you going immediately to try to discredit me and things I may or may have not have done? It’s be behaviour or a machievelian, narcisstic prick. Naturally I know you are not one of these, so would you mind explaining why you’re doing this? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 6, 2023 13:57:36 GMT
We used to have a poster here a few years ago called Gregory Stevens, he was a Putin apologist. What's your take on the issue? Bearing in mind you posted something about Ukrainian refugees on the Cost of Living thread a while back which was later deleted. Why are you going immediately to try to discredit me and things I may or may have not have done? It’s be behaviour or a machievelian, narcisstic prick. Naturally I know you are not one of these, so would you mind explaining why you’re doing this? Some of the things you posted then were factually inaccurate, just wondered if you were approaching this open minded or if there was any bias towards the official Russian stance. At the start of this I suggested a compromise (only my opinion, not that it would do anything). The reasons for war were spurious and I can't see a compromise solution now working. |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 14:05:27 GMT
Where did you find that out then? Have you read Russian media? Speak Russian? Ah wait; they banned accessing RT didn’t they - the hallmark of the good guys right there We used to have a poster here a few years ago called Gregory Stevens, he was a Putin apologist. What's your take on the issue? Bearing in mind you posted something about Ukrainian refugees on the Cost of Living thread a while back which was later deleted. My take: 2 superpowers butting up against each other. Ukraine is a complicated state with a split history. The aim of Russia (note, not Putin, the agencies love a simplistic villain to help simplify matters for simple minds) is to not allow NATO on its doorstep, and the ultimate aim is for east Ukraine to be a buffer state to the west. The majority of what you read is nonsense. Both in Russian and U.K. media. I read both. A broader narrative is that since the wall came down it’s been a one way US and European domination of world politics and that time is at an end. Like it or not, we are in decline. Essentially the Ukraine is a similar situation to The Balkan war playing out. 2 nations within one country. The general belief over here is that that Ukraine is a unified and homogenous country and it isn’t. Who is Northern Ireland loyal to? There is no answer. Like it or not, Russians have always despised western Ukraine as they did collaborate with the Germans in the second war and the bad feeling has never left the Russian psyche. Eastern Ukraine does not wish to be part of perceived German and American control, no compromise. I in no way expect anyone to open their mind a fraction of an Inch to understand the Russian position on Ukraine or the Chinese on Hing Kong and Taiwan etc. most people are nothing more than photocopiers for whatever they’ve read today. Who is right and who is wrong? Nobody. It’s a conflict with opposing points of view and will be decided by force. For the food of everyone and I hope that wars will end. Here’s a question. If the south east of England wanted to be part of France, would vote to be part of it, and had a civil war over being part of it, would we be insisting it remain part of UK? Interesting question. |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 6, 2023 14:19:43 GMT
We used to have a poster here a few years ago called Gregory Stevens, he was a Putin apologist. What's your take on the issue? Bearing in mind you posted something about Ukrainian refugees on the Cost of Living thread a while back which was later deleted. My take: 2 superpowers butting up against each other. Ukraine is a complicated state with a split history. The aim of Russia (note, not Putin, the agencies love a simplistic villain to help simplify matters for simple minds) is to not allow NATO on its doorstep, and the ultimate aim is for east Ukraine to be a buffer state to the west. The majority of what you read is nonsense. Both in Russian and U.K. media. I read both. A broader narrative is that since the wall came down it’s been a one way US and European domination of world politics and that time is at an end. Like it or not, we are in decline. Essentially the Ukraine is a similar situation to The Balkan war playing out. 2 nations within one country. The general belief over here is that that Ukraine is a unified and homogenous country and it isn’t. Who is Northern Ireland loyal to? There is no answer. Like it or not, Russians have always despised western Ukraine as they did collaborate with the Germans in the second war and the bad feeling has never left the Russian psyche. Eastern Ukraine does not wish to be part of perceived German and American control, no compromise. I in no way expect anyone to open their mind a fraction of an Inch to understand the Russian position on Ukraine or the Chinese on Hing Kong and Taiwan etc. most people are nothing more than photocopiers for whatever they’ve read today. Who is right and who is wrong? Nobody. It’s a conflict with opposing points of view and will be decided by force. For the food of everyone and I hope that wars will end. Here’s a question. If the south east of England wanted to be part of France, would vote to be part of it, and had a civil war over being part of it, would we be insisting it remain part of UK? Interesting question. Does Ukraine have a right to choose or does it need the okay from Moscow? As for the South East voting, you have to look at Scotland having a referendum in 2014. If there is a political will to do so, with support among political parties who wanted it, then it would happen. Bit of Whataboutery there though. A better example would be the Republic of Ireland adopting the Euro, didn't see us bombing Dublin. As for Grozny, Aleppo, etc...? |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 16:03:01 GMT
My take: 2 superpowers butting up against each other. Ukraine is a complicated state with a split history. The aim of Russia (note, not Putin, the agencies love a simplistic villain to help simplify matters for simple minds) is to not allow NATO on its doorstep, and the ultimate aim is for east Ukraine to be a buffer state to the west. The majority of what you read is nonsense. Both in Russian and U.K. media. I read both. A broader narrative is that since the wall came down it’s been a one way US and European domination of world politics and that time is at an end. Like it or not, we are in decline. Essentially the Ukraine is a similar situation to The Balkan war playing out. 2 nations within one country. The general belief over here is that that Ukraine is a unified and homogenous country and it isn’t. Who is Northern Ireland loyal to? There is no answer. Like it or not, Russians have always despised western Ukraine as they did collaborate with the Germans in the second war and the bad feeling has never left the Russian psyche. Eastern Ukraine does not wish to be part of perceived German and American control, no compromise. I in no way expect anyone to open their mind a fraction of an Inch to understand the Russian position on Ukraine or the Chinese on Hing Kong and Taiwan etc. most people are nothing more than photocopiers for whatever they’ve read today. Who is right and who is wrong? Nobody. It’s a conflict with opposing points of view and will be decided by force. For the food of everyone and I hope that wars will end. Here’s a question. If the south east of England wanted to be part of France, would vote to be part of it, and had a civil war over being part of it, would we be insisting it remain part of UK? Interesting question. Does Ukraine have a right to choose or does it need the okay from Moscow? As for the South East voting, you have to look at Scotland having a referendum in 2014. If there is a political will to do so, with support among political parties who wanted it, then it would happen. Bit of Whataboutery there though. A better example would be the Republic of Ireland adopting the Euro, didn't see us bombing Dublin. As for Grozny, Aleppo, etc...? You hit on a very interesting point at the end and my answer is Yes. I am entirely cynical in all directions. Ukraine is different to NI in that nearly everyone is geographically split. The east and the Crimea are strongly pro Russian. The west not so. The sensible conclusion would be to allow a split. That won’t suit Europe or the US. There is tremendous strategic advantage to controlling those areas through “democracy”. Democracy is best served locally, which is why I am in favour of devolution in all areas. A vote for an MEP, even an MP is comically pointless. Local politics, with those responsibly open and visible, actually gives it meaning. You might be starting to understand why I dislike the EU but I would like this to go a lot further. Russia are indeed hypocritical in this, as are all other superpowers. Have we forgotten the last 70 years? Absolute outrage about Ukraine all of a sudden while we let all sorts happen provided the perpetrator is our guy. Hint: Saudis. Hence trying to play this off as an epic battle between an aging maniacal dictator that we must fight to the death isn’t gonna wash. Been here before. |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 6, 2023 16:20:41 GMT
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Ukraine#:~:text=In%20elections%2C%20voters%20of%20the,Russian%20and%20status%20quo%20platform. 1991 Ukrainian independence referendum, "Yes" votes by region A large majority of voters in eastern Ukraine (83% or more in each oblast) approved Ukraine's declaration of independence in the 1991 referendum, though the majority was not as big as in the west.[2][3] In 2014, the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine took place in parts of eastern Ukraine. Some protesters allegedly came from Russia to support the unrest.[4][5] The war in Donbas resulted in thousands of deaths and over a million people leaving their homes.[6] Today, parts of the region are controlled by the self-proclaimed and internationally not-recognized Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic. On 24 February 2022, the region became the scene of the Eastern Ukraine A large majority of voters in eastern Ukraine (83% or more in each oblast) approved Ukraine's declaration of independence in the 1991 referendum, though the majority was not as big as in the west.[2][3] In 2014, the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine took place in parts of eastern Ukraine. Some protesters allegedly came from Russia to support the unrest.[4][5] The war in Donbas resulted in thousands of deaths and over a million people leaving their homes.[6] Today, parts of the region are controlled by the self-proclaimed and internationally not-recognized Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic. On 24 February 2022, the region became the scene of the Eastern Ukraine offensive. According to the 2001 census, the majority of eastern Ukraine's population are ethnic Ukrainians, while ethnic Russians form a significant minority. The most common language in urban areas of the Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts is Russian, having long dominated in government and the media. When Ukraine became independent, there were no Ukrainian-language schools in Donetsk.[7] Noticeable cultural differences in the region (compared with the rest of Ukraine except Southern Ukraine) are more "positive views" on the Russian language[8][9] and on the Soviet era[10][11] and more "negative views" on Ukrainian nationalism.[10] In elections, voters of the eastern (and southern) oblasts of Ukraine voted for parties (Communist Party of Ukraine (CPU), Party of Regions) and presidential candidates (Viktor Yanukovych) with a pro-Russian and status quo platform.[12][13][14] The electorate of CPU and Party of Regions was very loyal to them.[14] But following the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution the Party of Regions collapsed[15] and the CPU was banned and declared illegal.[16] Effective in August 2012, a law on regional languages entitled any local language spoken by at least a 10% of the population to be declared official within that area.[17] Within weeks, Russian was declared as a regional language in several southern and eastern oblasts and cities.[18] From that point Russian could be used in those cities'/oblasts' administrative office work and documents.[19] On 23 February 2014, the law on regional languages was abolished, making Ukrainian the sole state language at all levels even in eastern Ukraine,[20] but this vote was vetoed by acting President Oleksandr Turchynov on 2 March.[21][22] A February 2015 survey found that eastern oblasts (61%) preferred "second official regional language" over (31%) "state language" status for Russian.[23] The 2012 law on regional languages was repealed by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine on 28 February 2018 when it ruled the law unconstitutional.[24] A 2007 survey by the Razumkov Centre asked "Would you like to have your region separated from Ukraine and joined another state?" In eastern Ukraine, 77.9% of respondents disagreed, 10.4% agreed, and the rest were undecided.[26] Kyiv International Institute of Sociology geographical division of Ukraine used in their polls In a poll conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology in the first half of February 2014, 25.8% of those polled in eastern Ukraine believed that "Ukraine and Russia must unite into a single state", nationwide this percentage was 12.5%.[27] A November 2015 poll carried out by Rating Group Ukraine in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, except in the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and the Luhansk People's Republic (LPR)-controlled areas, found that 75% of residents wanted the entire Donbas region to stay in Ukraine, 7% said that it should join Russia, 1% wanted it to become an independent country, and 3% said that the DPR and the LPR-controlled territories should leave and the rest of Donbas remain in Ukraine.[28] When asked if Russian-speaking citizens are under pressure or threat, 82% said 'no' and 11% said 'yes'.[28] 2% "definitely" and 7% "somewhat" supported Russia sending troops to "protect" Russian-speakers in Ukraine, while 71% did not.[28] 50% wanted Ukraine to remain a unitary country, 14% wanted it to be a federal country, 13% said it should remain unitary but without Crimea, and 7% wanted it to be divided into several countries.[28] If they had to choose between the Eurasian Customs Union and the European Union, 24% in eastern Ukraine (including Kharkiv Oblast) preferred the ECU and 20% preferred the EU (in Donbas: 33% for the ECU, 21% for the EU). On joining NATO, 15% were for, 15% were against, and most said that they would not vote or it was difficult to answer (in Donbas: 16% for, 47% against).[28] Eastern Ukrainians were less likely to vote in parliamentary elections.[28]
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 6, 2023 16:27:41 GMT
Does Ukraine have a right to choose or does it need the okay from Moscow? As for the South East voting, you have to look at Scotland having a referendum in 2014. If there is a political will to do so, with support among political parties who wanted it, then it would happen. Bit of Whataboutery there though. A better example would be the Republic of Ireland adopting the Euro, didn't see us bombing Dublin. As for Grozny, Aleppo, etc...? You hit on a very interesting point at the end and my answer is Yes. I am entirely cynical in all directions. Ukraine is different to NI in that nearly everyone is geographically split. The east and the Crimea are strongly pro Russian. The west not so. The sensible conclusion would be to allow a split. That won’t suit Europe or the US. There is tremendous strategic advantage to controlling those areas through “democracy”. Democracy is best served locally, which is why I am in favour of devolution in all areas. A vote for an MEP, even an MP is comically pointless. Local politics, with those responsibly open and visible, actually gives it meaning. You might be starting to understand why I dislike the EU but I would like this to go a lot further. Russia are indeed hypocritical in this, as are all other superpowers. Have we forgotten the last 70 years? Absolute outrage about Ukraine all of a sudden while we let all sorts happen provided the perpetrator is our guy. Hint: Saudis. Hence trying to play this off as an epic battle between an aging maniacal dictator that we must fight to the death isn’t gonna wash. Been here before. There has to be a legal entity otherwise you risk chaos. Taking that stance would mean cities remaining in the EU while the more rural areas left. As for being here before, yes we have. 1930s Germany. |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 17:20:54 GMT
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Ukraine#:~:text=In%20elections%2C%20voters%20of%20the,Russian%20and%20status%20quo%20platform. 1991 Ukrainian independence referendum, "Yes" votes by region A large majority of voters in eastern Ukraine (83% or more in each oblast) approved Ukraine's declaration of independence in the 1991 referendum, though the majority was not as big as in the west.[2][3] In 2014, the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine took place in parts of eastern Ukraine. Some protesters allegedly came from Russia to support the unrest.[4][5] The war in Donbas resulted in thousands of deaths and over a million people leaving their homes.[6] Today, parts of the region are controlled by the self-proclaimed and internationally not-recognized Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic. On 24 February 2022, the region became the scene of the Eastern Ukraine A large majority of voters in eastern Ukraine (83% or more in each oblast) approved Ukraine's declaration of independence in the 1991 referendum, though the majority was not as big as in the west.[2][3] In 2014, the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine took place in parts of eastern Ukraine. Some protesters allegedly came from Russia to support the unrest.[4][5] The war in Donbas resulted in thousands of deaths and over a million people leaving their homes.[6] Today, parts of the region are controlled by the self-proclaimed and internationally not-recognized Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic. On 24 February 2022, the region became the scene of the Eastern Ukraine offensive. According to the 2001 census, the majority of eastern Ukraine's population are ethnic Ukrainians, while ethnic Russians form a significant minority. The most common language in urban areas of the Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts is Russian, having long dominated in government and the media. When Ukraine became independent, there were no Ukrainian-language schools in Donetsk.[7] Noticeable cultural differences in the region (compared with the rest of Ukraine except Southern Ukraine) are more "positive views" on the Russian language[8][9] and on the Soviet era[10][11] and more "negative views" on Ukrainian nationalism.[10] In elections, voters of the eastern (and southern) oblasts of Ukraine voted for parties (Communist Party of Ukraine (CPU), Party of Regions) and presidential candidates (Viktor Yanukovych) with a pro-Russian and status quo platform.[12][13][14] The electorate of CPU and Party of Regions was very loyal to them.[14] But following the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution the Party of Regions collapsed[15] and the CPU was banned and declared illegal.[16] Effective in August 2012, a law on regional languages entitled any local language spoken by at least a 10% of the population to be declared official within that area.[17] Within weeks, Russian was declared as a regional language in several southern and eastern oblasts and cities.[18] From that point Russian could be used in those cities'/oblasts' administrative office work and documents.[19] On 23 February 2014, the law on regional languages was abolished, making Ukrainian the sole state language at all levels even in eastern Ukraine,[20] but this vote was vetoed by acting President Oleksandr Turchynov on 2 March.[21][22] A February 2015 survey found that eastern oblasts (61%) preferred "second official regional language" over (31%) "state language" status for Russian.[23] The 2012 law on regional languages was repealed by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine on 28 February 2018 when it ruled the law unconstitutional.[24] A 2007 survey by the Razumkov Centre asked "Would you like to have your region separated from Ukraine and joined another state?" In eastern Ukraine, 77.9% of respondents disagreed, 10.4% agreed, and the rest were undecided.[26] Kyiv International Institute of Sociology geographical division of Ukraine used in their polls In a poll conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology in the first half of February 2014, 25.8% of those polled in eastern Ukraine believed that "Ukraine and Russia must unite into a single state", nationwide this percentage was 12.5%.[27] A November 2015 poll carried out by Rating Group Ukraine in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, except in the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and the Luhansk People's Republic (LPR)-controlled areas, found that 75% of residents wanted the entire Donbas region to stay in Ukraine, 7% said that it should join Russia, 1% wanted it to become an independent country, and 3% said that the DPR and the LPR-controlled territories should leave and the rest of Donbas remain in Ukraine.[28] When asked if Russian-speaking citizens are under pressure or threat, 82% said 'no' and 11% said 'yes'.[28] 2% "definitely" and 7% "somewhat" supported Russia sending troops to "protect" Russian-speakers in Ukraine, while 71% did not.[28] 50% wanted Ukraine to remain a unitary country, 14% wanted it to be a federal country, 13% said it should remain unitary but without Crimea, and 7% wanted it to be divided into several countries.[28] If they had to choose between the Eurasian Customs Union and the European Union, 24% in eastern Ukraine (including Kharkiv Oblast) preferred the ECU and 20% preferred the EU (in Donbas: 33% for the ECU, 21% for the EU). On joining NATO, 15% were for, 15% were against, and most said that they would not vote or it was difficult to answer (in Donbas: 16% for, 47% against).[28] Eastern Ukrainians were less likely to vote in parliamentary elections.[28] Wikipedia? Are you that stupid? I could literally summarise all of your content with “insert what the logo says” and a little middle finger after it Wikipedia is less credible than 4 chan. the absolute state of people in this country, you could hand out lobotomies and you’d get better critical analysis. Absolute dumbos. Citing a 1991 poll as well. |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 17:23:09 GMT
You hit on a very interesting point at the end and my answer is Yes. I am entirely cynical in all directions. Ukraine is different to NI in that nearly everyone is geographically split. The east and the Crimea are strongly pro Russian. The west not so. The sensible conclusion would be to allow a split. That won’t suit Europe or the US. There is tremendous strategic advantage to controlling those areas through “democracy”. Democracy is best served locally, which is why I am in favour of devolution in all areas. A vote for an MEP, even an MP is comically pointless. Local politics, with those responsibly open and visible, actually gives it meaning. You might be starting to understand why I dislike the EU but I would like this to go a lot further. Russia are indeed hypocritical in this, as are all other superpowers. Have we forgotten the last 70 years? Absolute outrage about Ukraine all of a sudden while we let all sorts happen provided the perpetrator is our guy. Hint: Saudis. Hence trying to play this off as an epic battle between an aging maniacal dictator that we must fight to the death isn’t gonna wash. Been here before. There has to be a legal entity otherwise you risk chaos. Taking that stance would mean cities remaining in the EU while the more rural areas left. As for being here before, yes we have. 1930s Germany. Yes, that’s what they said about Sadaam too, and you all stood to attention, as you are now. Get ready for your next order from the telescreen |
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Post by oldie on Mar 6, 2023 17:38:40 GMT
There has to be a legal entity otherwise you risk chaos. Taking that stance would mean cities remaining in the EU while the more rural areas left. As for being here before, yes we have. 1930s Germany. Yes, that’s what they said about Sadaam too, and you all stood to attention, as you are now. Get ready for your next order from the telescreen Was that before he invaded Kuwait? Or before he invaded Iran, or before he gassed the Kurds? Which one? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 6, 2023 17:57:56 GMT
There has to be a legal entity otherwise you risk chaos. Taking that stance would mean cities remaining in the EU while the more rural areas left. As for being here before, yes we have. 1930s Germany. Yes, that’s what they said about Sadaam too, and you all stood to attention, as you are now. Get ready for your next order from the telescreen Thank you, Olga Skabeyeva. 😘 |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 6, 2023 18:00:47 GMT
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Ukraine#:~:text=In%20elections%2C%20voters%20of%20the,Russian%20and%20status%20quo%20platform. 1991 Ukrainian independence referendum, "Yes" votes by region A large majority of voters in eastern Ukraine (83% or more in each oblast) approved Ukraine's declaration of independence in the 1991 referendum, though the majority was not as big as in the west.[2][3] In 2014, the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine took place in parts of eastern Ukraine. Some protesters allegedly came from Russia to support the unrest.[4][5] The war in Donbas resulted in thousands of deaths and over a million people leaving their homes.[6] Today, parts of the region are controlled by the self-proclaimed and internationally not-recognized Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic. On 24 February 2022, the region became the scene of the Eastern Ukraine A large majority of voters in eastern Ukraine (83% or more in each oblast) approved Ukraine's declaration of independence in the 1991 referendum, though the majority was not as big as in the west.[2][3] In 2014, the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine took place in parts of eastern Ukraine. Some protesters allegedly came from Russia to support the unrest.[4][5] The war in Donbas resulted in thousands of deaths and over a million people leaving their homes.[6] Today, parts of the region are controlled by the self-proclaimed and internationally not-recognized Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic. On 24 February 2022, the region became the scene of the Eastern Ukraine offensive. According to the 2001 census, the majority of eastern Ukraine's population are ethnic Ukrainians, while ethnic Russians form a significant minority. The most common language in urban areas of the Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts is Russian, having long dominated in government and the media. When Ukraine became independent, there were no Ukrainian-language schools in Donetsk.[7] Noticeable cultural differences in the region (compared with the rest of Ukraine except Southern Ukraine) are more "positive views" on the Russian language[8][9] and on the Soviet era[10][11] and more "negative views" on Ukrainian nationalism.[10] In elections, voters of the eastern (and southern) oblasts of Ukraine voted for parties (Communist Party of Ukraine (CPU), Party of Regions) and presidential candidates (Viktor Yanukovych) with a pro-Russian and status quo platform.[12][13][14] The electorate of CPU and Party of Regions was very loyal to them.[14] But following the 2014 Ukrainian Revolution the Party of Regions collapsed[15] and the CPU was banned and declared illegal.[16] Effective in August 2012, a law on regional languages entitled any local language spoken by at least a 10% of the population to be declared official within that area.[17] Within weeks, Russian was declared as a regional language in several southern and eastern oblasts and cities.[18] From that point Russian could be used in those cities'/oblasts' administrative office work and documents.[19] On 23 February 2014, the law on regional languages was abolished, making Ukrainian the sole state language at all levels even in eastern Ukraine,[20] but this vote was vetoed by acting President Oleksandr Turchynov on 2 March.[21][22] A February 2015 survey found that eastern oblasts (61%) preferred "second official regional language" over (31%) "state language" status for Russian.[23] The 2012 law on regional languages was repealed by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine on 28 February 2018 when it ruled the law unconstitutional.[24] A 2007 survey by the Razumkov Centre asked "Would you like to have your region separated from Ukraine and joined another state?" In eastern Ukraine, 77.9% of respondents disagreed, 10.4% agreed, and the rest were undecided.[26] Kyiv International Institute of Sociology geographical division of Ukraine used in their polls In a poll conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology in the first half of February 2014, 25.8% of those polled in eastern Ukraine believed that "Ukraine and Russia must unite into a single state", nationwide this percentage was 12.5%.[27] A November 2015 poll carried out by Rating Group Ukraine in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, except in the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and the Luhansk People's Republic (LPR)-controlled areas, found that 75% of residents wanted the entire Donbas region to stay in Ukraine, 7% said that it should join Russia, 1% wanted it to become an independent country, and 3% said that the DPR and the LPR-controlled territories should leave and the rest of Donbas remain in Ukraine.[28] When asked if Russian-speaking citizens are under pressure or threat, 82% said 'no' and 11% said 'yes'.[28] 2% "definitely" and 7% "somewhat" supported Russia sending troops to "protect" Russian-speakers in Ukraine, while 71% did not.[28] 50% wanted Ukraine to remain a unitary country, 14% wanted it to be a federal country, 13% said it should remain unitary but without Crimea, and 7% wanted it to be divided into several countries.[28] If they had to choose between the Eurasian Customs Union and the European Union, 24% in eastern Ukraine (including Kharkiv Oblast) preferred the ECU and 20% preferred the EU (in Donbas: 33% for the ECU, 21% for the EU). On joining NATO, 15% were for, 15% were against, and most said that they would not vote or it was difficult to answer (in Donbas: 16% for, 47% against).[28] Eastern Ukrainians were less likely to vote in parliamentary elections.[28] Wikipedia? Are you that stupid? I could literally summarise all of your content with “insert what the logo says” and a little middle finger after it Wikipedia is less credible than 4 chan. the absolute state of people in this country, you could hand out lobotomies and you’d get better critical analysis. Absolute dumbos. Citing a 1991 poll as well. Of course , silly me . Obvs you know so much more 🙄 Another one of those “ I did my own research “ clowns 🤡 |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 6, 2023 18:02:49 GMT
Yes, that’s what they said about Sadaam too, and you all stood to attention, as you are now. Get ready for your next order from the telescreen Was that before he invaded Kuwait? Or before he invaded Iran, or before he gassed the Kurds? Which one? Yehbut....reasons. He's still not condemned Putin, in fact, upthread he differentiated between Vlad and Russia. I guess he's also ignored WMD on UK soil, twice, hundreds of innocent people killed in MH17, hundreds of thousands of casualties in the past 12 months. Grozny, Aleppo, South Ossetia, murder of political opponents, outlawing certain LGBTQ information just to name a few things. Still a Putin apologist. |
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Post by yattongas on Mar 6, 2023 18:08:06 GMT
Sorry for my rudeness but this Gulf poster is an absolute clown , so far up his own arse . The more he posts the more you realise he’s a proper headbanger.
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 18:33:43 GMT
Quick guys, get on the guardian and BBC website to obtain some more intellectualism.
I’m arguing for a neutral and cynical take on geopolitics.
You’re on Team America World police train.
No wonder the world is the way it is when people are so hopelessly manipulated, you get the world you deserve, and it won’t ever end until you stop reading things off a screen and never once thinking “who is writing this and why?”
Stick a BBC logo on it and it’s a stone tablet.
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 18:34:59 GMT
Was that before he invaded Kuwait? Or before he invaded Iran, or before he gassed the Kurds? Which one? Yehbut....reasons. He's still not condemned Putin, in fact, upthread he differentiated between Vlad and Russia. I guess he's also ignored WMD on UK soil, twice, hundreds of innocent people killed in MH17, hundreds of thousands of casualties in the past 12 months. Grozny, Aleppo, South Ossetia, murder of political opponents, outlawing certain LGBTQ information just to name a few things. Still a Putin apologist. Oh alright, I condemn Validimir Putin. How’s a meaningless gesture which means f all do for you schoolchildren. These are just things you are reading off a screen. |
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Post by gulfofaden on Mar 6, 2023 18:38:17 GMT
Wikipedia? Are you that stupid? I could literally summarise all of your content with “insert what the logo says” and a little middle finger after it Wikipedia is less credible than 4 chan. the absolute state of people in this country, you could hand out lobotomies and you’d get better critical analysis. Absolute dumbos. Citing a 1991 poll as well. Of course , silly me . Obvs you know so much more 🙄 Another one of those “ I did my own research “ clowns 🤡 Well, more than reposting from Wikipedia. It is astounding that both you, and the axis of weasel all magically come to all the same conclusions about everything, all of the time. Have you wondered why that might be? |
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Post by stuart1974 on Mar 6, 2023 18:45:07 GMT
Yehbut....reasons. He's still not condemned Putin, in fact, upthread he differentiated between Vlad and Russia. I guess he's also ignored WMD on UK soil, twice, hundreds of innocent people killed in MH17, hundreds of thousands of casualties in the past 12 months. Grozny, Aleppo, South Ossetia, murder of political opponents, outlawing certain LGBTQ information just to name a few things. Still a Putin apologist. Oh alright, I condemn Validimir Putin. How’s a meaningless gesture which means f all do for you schoolchildren. These are just things you are reading off a screen. Did they happen? I'm lucky that I have not had any direct involvement, that doesn't invalidate my views regardless of what sources I use, which isn't just those you don't like. |
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