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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 24, 2023 9:11:22 GMT
You say that, but there have been some fantastic players at Rovers long before Barton and there will be again. I've read that people are saying we have a great squad but how many will realistically get in to an all time Rovers squad? Genuine question as I don't know much about the current players. You can ask the same question of any Rovers squad over some 100 years , doubt no one squad would dominate the best ever with 1 or 2 from here and there and plenty of very good squads with none which would not necessarily diminish the quality of that squad. You are correct of course. I'm 50 so I've seen decent squads and players before. I suppose Gassy is correct to say this may be the best we've had in 20 years. I was Gassys age when we blew promotion under Holloway. I forget sometimes that many fans won't remember them. It's longer ago than I thought! |
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Post by oldie on Aug 24, 2023 10:27:22 GMT
You can ask the same question of any Rovers squad over some 100 years , doubt no one squad would dominate the best ever with 1 or 2 from here and there and plenty of very good squads with none which would not necessarily diminish the quality of that squad. You are correct of course. I'm 50 so I've seen decent squads and players before. I suppose Gassy is correct to say this may be the best we've had in 20 years. I was Gassys age when we blew promotion under Holloway. I forget sometimes that many fans won't remember them. It's longer ago than I thought! Will never forget that season, some of the most exhilarating performances I have witnessed and the most bitter of disappointments. |
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Post by kentgas on Aug 24, 2023 10:41:52 GMT
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Post by lastminutewinner on Aug 24, 2023 10:51:27 GMT
I was at Cardiff that day. Horrible feeling which was surprisingly worse for me than at the Huddersfield play off final |
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Post by alanrg on Aug 24, 2023 10:58:56 GMT
That was a bitter sweet season blew it at Cardiff I remember us winning away on successive Saturdays at Luton and Oldham both by 4-1 and also a 2-1 win at Stoke the turning point was the season ending injury of Ronnie Mauge while on international duty
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Post by pennardgas on Aug 24, 2023 11:03:51 GMT
That was a bitter sweet season blew it at Cardiff I remember us winning away on successive Saturdays at Luton and Oldham both by 4-1 and also a 2-1 win at Stoke the turning point was the season ending injury of Ronnie Mauge while on international duty Thanks for bringing that trauma back up, I thought I’d got over it. Seems not! |
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Post by wertongas on Aug 24, 2023 11:16:39 GMT
I think the turning point was Reading, after the defeat Ollie gave the players some major stick, and the team never recovered , just one more win. Don't think at that stage of his career Ollie was very good at handling pressure.
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 11:22:28 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Aug 24, 2023 11:22:28 GMT
That actual squad put together by Holloway wasn't particularly good imo.
We just had 2 superb strikers in Cureton and Roberts, and a raw but promising Ellington.
Mark Walters provided extra quality.
Ronnie Mauge was a key part of it too.
The rest of the team wasn't great.
As was evident when Cureton & Roberts stopped scoring and Mauge got injured, we absolutely crumbled and went from certain automatic promotion to not even making the Play Offs altogether.
Then when Cureton & Roberts were sold in the summer we instantly got relegated to the 4th Division for the first time ever with the majority of the same squad bar Cureton and Roberts
This current squad has got far more strength in depth throughout than that Holloway team.
I would say it's even better than Gerry Francis squad of 1990!
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 11:40:29 GMT
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Post by oldie on Aug 24, 2023 11:40:29 GMT
That actual squad put together by Holloway wasn't particularly good imo. We just had 2 superb strikers in Cureton and Roberts, and a raw but promising Ellington. Mark Walters provided extra quality. Ronnie Mauge was a key part of it too. The rest of the team wasn't great. As was evident when Cureton & Roberts stopped scoring and Mauge got injured, we absolutely crumbled and went from certain automatic promotion to not even making the Play Offs altogether. Then when Cureton & Roberts were sold in the summer we instantly got relegated to the 4th Division for the first time ever with the majority of the same squad bar Cureton and Roberts This current squad has got far more strength in depth throughout than that Holloway team. I would say it's even better than Gerry Francis squad of 1990! Perhaps But that point, if accurate, points to the ability of the manager to extract maximum outcomes. We shall see with our current squad which I agree appears to be the strongest for years, on paper. On that dramatic season, it all fell apart I believe when Geoff D refused to fund an adequate replacement for Mauge. A couple of kids from Leicester (I think) was never going to cut it and the squad, I believe, just gave up. |
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 11:51:20 GMT
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Post by daniel300380 on Aug 24, 2023 11:51:20 GMT
That actual squad put together by Holloway wasn't particularly good imo. We just had 2 superb strikers in Cureton and Roberts, and a raw but promising Ellington. Mark Walters provided extra quality. Ronnie Mauge was a key part of it too. The rest of the team wasn't great. As was evident when Cureton & Roberts stopped scoring and Mauge got injured, we absolutely crumbled and went from certain automatic promotion to not even making the Play Offs altogether. Then when Cureton & Roberts were sold in the summer we instantly got relegated to the 4th Division for the first time ever with the majority of the same squad bar Cureton and Roberts This current squad has got far more strength in depth throughout than that Holloway team. I would say it's even better than Gerry Francis squad of 1990! We had David Hillier, the Latvian and wasn't Tilson still playing?? |
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 12:02:43 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Aug 24, 2023 12:02:43 GMT
That actual squad put together by Holloway wasn't particularly good imo. We just had 2 superb strikers in Cureton and Roberts, and a raw but promising Ellington. Mark Walters provided extra quality. Ronnie Mauge was a key part of it too. The rest of the team wasn't great. As was evident when Cureton & Roberts stopped scoring and Mauge got injured, we absolutely crumbled and went from certain automatic promotion to not even making the Play Offs altogether. Then when Cureton & Roberts were sold in the summer we instantly got relegated to the 4th Division for the first time ever with the majority of the same squad bar Cureton and Roberts This current squad has got far more strength in depth throughout than that Holloway team. I would say it's even better than Gerry Francis squad of 1990! Perhaps But that point, if accurate, points to the ability of the manager to extract maximum outcomes. We shall see with our current squad which I agree appears to be the strongest for years, on paper. On that dramatic season, it all fell apart I believe when Geoff D refused to fund an adequate replacement for Mauge. A couple of kids from Leicester (I think) was never going to cut it and the squad, I believe, just gave up. Again perhaps. Football has also changed a lot since then. When Gerry Francis was manager 1st time round, Wimbledon, Oxford, Luton, Millwall, Oldham were all playing in the top flight, and in Wimbledon, Oxford and Lutons case they were even winning major trophies. It's pretty hard to compare the era's. I'm just looking at the actual playing squad in terms of quality and depth. Squads are a lot bigger now than they were then too, which allows for more depth anyway which is worth pointing out I think. Like I said it's pretty hard to compare the era's, but I just think this squad is arguably actually better than Gerry Francis team, and imo better than Holloways. |
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Post by RD on Aug 24, 2023 12:02:52 GMT
That actual squad put together by Holloway wasn't particularly good imo. We just had 2 superb strikers in Cureton and Roberts, and a raw but promising Ellington. Mark Walters provided extra quality. Ronnie Mauge was a key part of it too. The rest of the team wasn't great. As was evident when Cureton & Roberts stopped scoring and Mauge got injured, we absolutely crumbled and went from certain automatic promotion to not even making the Play Offs altogether. Then when Cureton & Roberts were sold in the summer we instantly got relegated to the 4th Division for the first time ever with the majority of the same squad bar Cureton and Roberts This current squad has got far more strength in depth throughout than that Holloway team. I would say it's even better than Gerry Francis squad of 1990! Wholeheartedly disagree Easily the best team in my Rovers supporting lifetime - and by and absolute mile at that. |
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Post by Gassy on Aug 24, 2023 12:04:09 GMT
Yeah I’d say it’s a fair point. One would argue that GC had the most impressive achievement (without actually achieving anything) of them all. What he did with that squad/money available to him was close to a miracle tbh. But I would also agree with the statement that Barton seems to attract a higher quality calibre/pedigree of players than we’ve had in recent years Or, due to the work that TG has been doing with the commercial side of things we can pay higher wages? No doubt. But if you look at the top loanees we've brought in, I have no doubt thats from Barton's connections in the Prem. A genuine question, how much has our revenue increased since TG came in? On top of that, you're only allowed to spend a % of that on wages right? So I wonder if it makes a huge difference? I can't remember the figures but it'd be interesting to know how much change it can have on the playing budget |
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 12:09:11 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 24, 2023 12:09:11 GMT
Perhaps But that point, if accurate, points to the ability of the manager to extract maximum outcomes. We shall see with our current squad which I agree appears to be the strongest for years, on paper. On that dramatic season, it all fell apart I believe when Geoff D refused to fund an adequate replacement for Mauge. A couple of kids from Leicester (I think) was never going to cut it and the squad, I believe, just gave up. Again perhaps. Football has also changed a lot since then. When Gerry Francis was manager 1st time round, Wimbledon, Oxford, Luton, Millwall, Oldham were all playing in the top flight, and in Wimbledon, Oxford and Lutons case they were even winning major trophies. It's pretty hard to compare the era's. I'm just looking at the actual playing squad in terms of quality and depth. Squads are a lot bigger now than they were then too, which allows for more depth anyway which is worth pointing out I think. Like I said it's pretty hard to compare the era's, but I just think this squad is arguably actually better than Gerry Francis team, and imo better than Holloways. So if its better than a promotion team and better than a team that blew promotion what is your measurement for success this season. If Barton doesn't get us up, is he a failure? |
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Post by percy on Aug 24, 2023 12:12:13 GMT
Again perhaps. Football has also changed a lot since then. When Gerry Francis was manager 1st time round, Wimbledon, Oxford, Luton, Millwall, Oldham were all playing in the top flight, and in Wimbledon, Oxford and Lutons case they were even winning major trophies. It's pretty hard to compare the era's. I'm just looking at the actual playing squad in terms of quality and depth. Squads are a lot bigger now than they were then too, which allows for more depth anyway which is worth pointing out I think. Like I said it's pretty hard to compare the era's, but I just think this squad is arguably actually better than Gerry Francis team, and imo better than Holloways. So if its better than a promotion team and better than a team that blew promotion what is your measurement for success this season. If Barton doesn't get us up, is he a failure?for me, yes. Maybe challenge this year and promotion next. Anything else will be a big failre imho |
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 12:12:57 GMT
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Post by Gastafari on Aug 24, 2023 12:12:57 GMT
That actual squad put together by Holloway wasn't particularly good imo. We just had 2 superb strikers in Cureton and Roberts, and a raw but promising Ellington. Mark Walters provided extra quality. Ronnie Mauge was a key part of it too. The rest of the team wasn't great. As was evident when Cureton & Roberts stopped scoring and Mauge got injured, we absolutely crumbled and went from certain automatic promotion to not even making the Play Offs altogether. Then when Cureton & Roberts were sold in the summer we instantly got relegated to the 4th Division for the first time ever with the majority of the same squad bar Cureton and Roberts This current squad has got far more strength in depth throughout than that Holloway team. I would say it's even better than Gerry Francis squad of 1990! Wholeheartedly disagree Easily the best team in my Rovers supporting lifetime - and by and absolute mile at that. But that's my point, was it actually a good team? It had 3 or 4 star players but take them out if it, and it went from top of the Division to 7th in the space of the month, then within 9 months got relegated out of it for the 1st time in our history, with a lot of that same squad bar Cureton & Roberts. Ellington, Walters, The Latvian, Mauge, Simon Bryant, Lewis Hogg, Trevor Challis, Andy Thompson, Steve Foster etc were all still part of that team that went went from top of the Division to relegated out if it in the space of 10 months. So was it actually a good team/squad? |
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 12:14:03 GMT
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Post by oldie on Aug 24, 2023 12:14:03 GMT
Again perhaps. Football has also changed a lot since then. When Gerry Francis was manager 1st time round, Wimbledon, Oxford, Luton, Millwall, Oldham were all playing in the top flight, and in Wimbledon, Oxford and Lutons case they were even winning major trophies. It's pretty hard to compare the era's. I'm just looking at the actual playing squad in terms of quality and depth. Squads are a lot bigger now than they were then too, which allows for more depth anyway which is worth pointing out I think. Like I said it's pretty hard to compare the era's, but I just think this squad is arguably actually better than Gerry Francis team, and imo better than Holloways. So if its better than a promotion team and better than a team that blew promotion what is your measurement for success this season. If Barton doesn't get us up, is he a failure? That will be the question Hugo. |
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 12:16:00 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 24, 2023 12:16:00 GMT
Again perhaps. Football has also changed a lot since then. When Gerry Francis was manager 1st time round, Wimbledon, Oxford, Luton, Millwall, Oldham were all playing in the top flight, and in Wimbledon, Oxford and Lutons case they were even winning major trophies. It's pretty hard to compare the era's. I'm just looking at the actual playing squad in terms of quality and depth. Squads are a lot bigger now than they were then too, which allows for more depth anyway which is worth pointing out I think. Like I said it's pretty hard to compare the era's, but I just think this squad is arguably actually better than Gerry Francis team, and imo better than Holloways. So if its better than a promotion team and better than a team that blew promotion what is your measurement for success this season. If Barton doesn't get us up, is he a failure? Sorry for quoting myself here but I actually think we are comparing apples and oranges anyway. 20 years ago football looked very different. The Premier league teams hadn't started hoovering up all the best kids from around the country then. The standard of the league is probably better now than it was then, and the financial imbalance was less. Barton may have the best Rovers squad ever but so have many other teams. It may be that even with our best squad we are still not good enough as a team or because of the manager and we'll never know which it was. |
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Post by Gastafari on Aug 24, 2023 12:17:24 GMT
Again perhaps. Football has also changed a lot since then. When Gerry Francis was manager 1st time round, Wimbledon, Oxford, Luton, Millwall, Oldham were all playing in the top flight, and in Wimbledon, Oxford and Lutons case they were even winning major trophies. It's pretty hard to compare the era's. I'm just looking at the actual playing squad in terms of quality and depth. Squads are a lot bigger now than they were then too, which allows for more depth anyway which is worth pointing out I think. Like I said it's pretty hard to compare the era's, but I just think this squad is arguably actually better than Gerry Francis team, and imo better than Holloways. So if its better than a promotion team and better than a team that blew promotion what is your measurement for success this season. If Barton doesn't get us up, is he a failure? Not necessarily. Other clubs may gave better teams too. The size of clubs ending up in League 1 are generally bigger now as well. In the last 10-15 years Leeds, Forest, Leicester, Norwich, Southampton, Sunderland, Sheffield Weds and United, Ipswich, Charlton and now Derby have all found themselves in the 3rd tier. So again hard to compare. |
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JCH
Aug 24, 2023 12:21:30 GMT
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Aug 24, 2023 12:21:30 GMT
So if its better than a promotion team and better than a team that blew promotion what is your measurement for success this season. If Barton doesn't get us up, is he a failure? Not necessarily. Other clubs may gave better teams too. The size of clubs ending up in League 1 are generally bigger now as well. In the last 10-15 years Leeds, Forest, Leicester, Norwich, Southampton, Sunderland, Sheffield Weds and United, Ipswich, Charlton and now Derby have all found themselves in the 3rd tier. So again hard to compare. Yeah, I just posted something similar but you put it better than me. Again, I suppose that was the point I have been making. Whoever the manager is, some will get in good players some will recruit badly. JB isn't the be all and end all of a Rovers squad just as Francis and Holloway before him. Even Buckle recruited well ffs. Just so long as we avoid a Ward Mk2 or a Graydon we will probably be OK. |
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