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Post by baggins on Nov 21, 2023 12:52:36 GMT
They bought into Dwane - I think Dwane ultimately owns the quarters, the football club and the stadium. An umbrella Company if you will? To cover limiting costs of Bankrupcy, being sued, that sort of thing? |
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Post by gasify on Nov 21, 2023 13:57:23 GMT
We've spent more on the ground this year than we have done for 50+ years? Anyway why are you concerned Rovers have never had any money to develop the ground it's not like it's a new development. Even in the FM deal had gone ahead it would have meant handing the Mem over to CI in exchange for the new stadium. There is a huge difference selling the Mem site to fund a brand new modern stadium and selling parts of your assets to tart up a dated stadium by putting ends on stands that are not fit for purpose. Interesting comment. If the same person paid for the asset and then took the asset back, would that be asset stripping? |
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Post by amgas on Nov 21, 2023 14:09:36 GMT
I guess there is some nervousness that we have new owners and we have not seen much evidence of them paying for assets yet.
I think we are confident that Wael is in it for the right reasons and had put a lot of his own cash in.
Most people would say Wael had proved himself and we are confident he would do the right thing for the club.
New owners have to prove themselves - personally think talk of financing the stadium via loans did not fill me with confidence that they plan to use their own money ......
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Post by curlywurly on Nov 21, 2023 15:08:47 GMT
For anyone unwilling to read through the whole document, this is what was put forward:
What's the rationale for using the land where the current training pitches are? Access, services? It means we'd have to build up new pitches, which were part of the Phase 2 planning approval.
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Post by wider on Nov 21, 2023 15:10:44 GMT
Another thread with a lot of negativity and conspiracy theories!
Instead of speculating negatively why not have a look at the evidence and bear in mind how business is done most of the time?
Keeping your cards close to your chest is a basic. Misdirecting can be very useful. Being straightforward so you can be trusted next time you want to do business with the same people also often pays off in the long run.
Understanding how Planning Permission works is pretty easy stuff but it isn’t intuitive. Homework matters. Anybody can apply for permission to build anywhere - however, if you don’t own it already (or have a legally binding option to buy) you may be making someone else a lot of money. Future possibilities of permissions can add to land values (or decrease them). It seems Steve Hamer did us a favour with negotiating removal of an overage clause on the training ground land when we bought it. I suspect the argument was “we will be building to the existing plans so we will be in the way of a possible housing development anyway”.
Don’t forget that we did just get on and build to the previous plans - rugby club were they? We managed to change a bit before completing I think? Then we went back and extended?
We’ve obviously got lucky now (even if partly planned or worked towards) but this isn’t a done deal yet regards even allocating the land as possible housing. If confirmed it does raise the land value considerably and makes sense of moving the pitches. There is plenty of room and going closer to the motorway has less effect on training than the housing (especially at night).
Other clubs have suffered at the hands of incoming owners but surely Wael has proved himself by now? The fact that he has stayed around as President and seems very much a team player with the new owners is something I find reassuring. I might be wrong but so what - it’s their money and their club. I’m only a supporter of 61 years that spent what I consider a fortune on the club (including the Share Scheme and now Pirates Pot) but don’t feel that gives me any “right” to moan about what other people are doing with their money - hard earned or not. UTG!
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Post by yattongas on Nov 21, 2023 15:11:04 GMT
For anyone unwilling to read through the whole document, this is what was put forward:
What's the rationale for using the land where the current training pitches are? Access, services? It means we'd have to build up new pitches, which were part of the Phase 2 planning approval.
Closer to existing houses , further away from motorway (noise). So that’s where the houses would sell for the most wonga 😀👍 |
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Post by amgas on Nov 21, 2023 15:40:22 GMT
Is it ?
I think people are interested in what the plans are and are keen to see any funds raised spent on infrastructure either at the training ground or the stadium.
Most see it is an excellent opportunity to finance some of the things the club lacks and are supportive of it happening. Have not seen any negativity and certainly no conspiracy theories. Personally I think it is a shame that the housing is proposed for where the pitches are as they cost the club money that could be spent elsewhere, but most people accept why it makes sense to build there and understand plans change.
We all know Wael would do the best for the club, but he is not in charge anymore - naturally the new owners have to prove themselves - no reflection on them but trust comes with time and actions.
This has the potential to be as transformational a deal as the Dunfords pulled off with the Stadium - fingers crossed it comes off.
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Post by Quarters on Nov 21, 2023 16:45:12 GMT
Could be that money was tight so we looked at the option to sell a portion of the land as a funding mechanism to complete the rest of the development. The question is, is this still necessary with the new co-owners, or has it formed part of their assessment and they still wish to pursue it? I'd be disappointed if it's still going ahead especially as they'll need the space to accommodate all the teams they say they want there. Not sure it's disappointing if we get £7m+ for a third of the land bought for a £1m, just as long as the money stays with the club and doesn't disappear to pay previous debts? The map shows .59 hectares to be up for housing. Probably £3-£4 million. |
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Post by neilv93 on Nov 21, 2023 16:47:06 GMT
Just so I'm understanding this properly, and please someone correct me if not:
- South Glos council want to build 70-odd homes at the Quarters
- we (the club/owners) own the Quarters and the land
- we would NOT be selling up or moving, but simply 'giving back' (at a price) some of the land we acquired for the housing development
Semi related but shame we couldn't build a stadium there. Massive amounts of land, right next to Aztec M5/M4 crossover junction and still within the 'Bristol' boundaries (for those understandably not keen on us doing a Brighton and moving outta town).
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Post by amgas on Nov 21, 2023 17:47:12 GMT
It is not the council building houses. Rovers have asked for some of the land to be added to the local plan as housing land - it is currently green belt.
It basically means a developer would have a good chance to get planning permission to build there. Councils have targets for number of houses to be built in their area but most of the building will be done by private companies.
Getting the land added to the plan increases its value massively.
Hard to get permission for houses in green belt virtually no chance of a stadium I suspect. Right by the motorway but no direct access and tiny country roads leading to the site.
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 21, 2023 18:01:46 GMT
If it's correct the application was submitted to S Glos as long ago as April 2022, for all we know the new owners might have now decided they'd sooner keep the present training pitches and not now proceed with the application?
It does seem a waste to potentially plough two(?) pitches which seem to have a surface similar to the Mem.
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Post by blueridge on Nov 21, 2023 18:42:39 GMT
Not sure it's disappointing if we get £7m+ for a third of the land bought for a £1m, just as long as the money stays with the club and doesn't disappear to pay previous debts? The map shows .59 hectares to be up for housing. Probably £3-£4 million. Site Submission Statement by the Club says 2.25 ha (5.56 acres) - so potentially some significant money. |
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Post by Quarters on Nov 21, 2023 19:21:11 GMT
The map shows .59 hectares to be up for housing. Probably £3-£4 million. Site Submission Statement by the Club says 2.25 ha (5.56 acres) - so potentially some significant money. Sorry put wrong number down. The .59 was a plot in Stoke Gifford on sale at £1 million, extrapolate this out to £3.8 for the 2.25. |
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Post by gasheadontour on Nov 21, 2023 20:39:21 GMT
It would be so Rovers to have some houses built on part of the training ground (which would then help support having a stadium built on the rest of it) only for the housing to later block a stadium build.
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 21, 2023 20:48:25 GMT
Site Submission Statement by the Club says 2.25 ha (5.56 acres) - so potentially some significant money. Sorry put wrong number down. The .59 was a plot in Stoke Gifford on sale at £1 million, extrapolate this out to £3.8 for the 2.25. There's a suggestion that 70 homes could be built by on the site, working out what each plot could be worth probably gives a better idea of the value of the land, whatever it is it's a few £m! |
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Post by stuart1974 on Nov 21, 2023 20:51:15 GMT
Sorry put wrong number down. The .59 was a plot in Stoke Gifford on sale at £1 million, extrapolate this out to £3.8 for the 2.25. There's a suggestion that 70 homes could be built by on the site, working out what each plot could be worth probably gives a better idea of the value of the land, whatever it is it's a few £m! Have you factored in build costs and ancillary expenses for the house builder? |
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 21, 2023 20:52:18 GMT
It would be so Rovers to have some houses built on part of the training ground (which would then help support having a stadium built on the rest of it) only for the housing to later block a stadium build. I can't see a stadium could ever be built given the only access to the site is via Hortham Lane. Perhaps like Luton & Brentford we could sell the whole site for housing and then use that money to pay for a new stadium. On that note why restrict the development to just 70 houses anyway, it's not like the local residents have any access to the training ground at present. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 21, 2023 20:54:22 GMT
There's a suggestion that 70 homes could be built by on the site, working out what each plot could be worth probably gives a better idea of the value of the land, whatever it is it's a few £m! Have you factored in build costs and ancillary expenses for the house builder? No idea what type of homes they intend building but the old Hortham Hospital development houses now go for £750K+ plus they seems plenty of equity to fund the building etc even if the club got £100K per home. |
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Post by gasheadontour on Nov 21, 2023 20:58:44 GMT
Last I heard from a housing developer was that a third of the cost of a new house is for the land and a third for the build.
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Post by aghast on Nov 21, 2023 22:11:49 GMT
Last I heard from a housing developer was that a third of the cost of a new house is for the land and a third for the build. I've heard similar except the figures I read were 25% for the land and 40% for the build. So if 70 houses sell for say £500k each (assuming some will be 'affordable' housing and some exec style), that's £35m. 25% of that as land costs to the developer and therefore earnings for Dwane Sports/new owners is about £8.8m. |
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