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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 26, 2023 13:20:23 GMT
For a so called quality squad Rovers struggle against teams in the top half of the division! Do you watch the game? If so where did we struggle during the game? |
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Post by gasify on Nov 26, 2023 13:40:47 GMT
For a so called quality squad Rovers struggle against teams in the top half of the division! Do you watch the game? If so where did we struggle during the game? You've hit the nail on the head. We didn't really struggle at all. In fact, I thought we played well, bringing on Thomas and Brown and going for it does seem to me as that "Plan B" that people say we don't have. It worked, we got the equaliser. Then a rush of blood gave the advantage back to Derby. Even after that and in the 9 mins of injury time, I thought we could equalise. I like Grant as the CB. It means we can get the ball forward quicker and p*ss about at the back less. Why are we always looking for a scapegoat? If there was ever a game to simply dust ourselves down and go again on Tuesday, it was this game. Looking forward to Tuesday still, 3 points are well and truly possible on Tuesday night. |
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Post by gasheadontour on Nov 26, 2023 13:53:31 GMT
To get the best out of the team going forwards we need to be getting beyond the oppo full-backs to cut-back to Martin and a supporting player in the centre plus a late runner from central midfield. On the break we need to be getting it to Martin central to hold it and lay-off to a quick player. Our full-backs should focus on defending.
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Post by Gastafari on Nov 26, 2023 14:01:58 GMT
For a so called quality squad Rovers struggle against teams in the top half of the division! Do we? |
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Post by kampucheagas on Nov 26, 2023 14:08:40 GMT
For a so called quality squad Rovers struggle against teams in the top half of the division! Do we? I think we’ve struggled more against the teams that are nearer the bottom, teams that rely on a more direct style, against teams that try and play we more than hold our own Our major weakness is pace at the back, especially full back, we are massively vulnerable to teams with fast tricky wingers Any manager must be targeting a robust left back, and a pacy alternative up top. We are too predictable with Martin and Marquis. Need a better plan b. Not far off a very good side, few tweaks, who will be the man in the dugout to take us forward? Big decisions for the club. UTG |
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Post by Gastafari on Nov 26, 2023 14:21:31 GMT
I think we’ve struggled more against the teams that are nearer the bottom, teams that rely on a more direct style, against teams that try and play we more than hold our own Our major weakness is pace at the back, especially full back, we are massively vulnerable to teams with fast tricky wingers Any manager must be targeting a robust left back, and a pacy alternative up top. We are too predictable with Martin and Marquis. Need a better plan b. Not far off a very good side, few tweaks, who will be the man in the dugout to take us forward? Big decisions for the club. UTG Precisely. We've played our best Football against Portsmouth, Oxford, Barnsley etc. Portsmouth sneaked a last minute equaliser, we completely outplayed Oxford and Barnsley. We smashed Wigan 4-1 who if it weren't for points deductions would be comfortably top half. We beat Charlton away who are top half. Like you said it's the teams in the bottom half, Cambridge, Burton, Reading etc where we have actually struggled. |
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Post by socrates on Nov 26, 2023 14:47:54 GMT
We were shaped for an attack, he’s gifted possession away, done F all to stop their man charging down the channel (the lad wasn’t even THAT quick) no wonder we were at 6’s & 7’s trying to get numbers back. The goal was a terrible sequence of events. Brown equally culpable by giving Grant a hospital pass and then just standing still and waving his arms around Browns been pretty useless for us bar one game I think it was Port Vale at home I can’t remember him being anything other than poor. Seems like another Kyle Bennet to me. Technically decent but no movement , doesn’t work hard a and with him and Collins playing the same way they both need to be benched. We need to start Thomas and Vale together not one or the other and move the ball quickly with through balls , Martin will find them with flick ons and lay offs and Finley , Ward and Evans etc with through balls. But we don’t play that way which is why we’re mid table. |
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Post by socrates on Nov 26, 2023 14:51:28 GMT
For a so called quality squad Rovers struggle against teams in the top half of the division! Do you watch the game? If so where did we struggle during the game? I know the question wasn’t for me but where we struggled was in our attacking movement / build up play. We matched derby for possession and successful passes but ours were probably 90% to feet - backs to goal and in a slow paced fashion. Derby looked to get behind us quickly with a more direct approach putting pressure on our defence and they succeeded and beat us because that quite simply is what works in league 1. |
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Post by Topper Gas on Nov 26, 2023 15:03:58 GMT
Do you watch the game? If so where did we struggle during the game? I know the question wasn’t for me but where we struggled was in our attacking movement / build up play. We matched derby for possession and successful passes but ours were probably 90% to feet - backs to goal and in a slow paced fashion. Derby looked to get behind us quickly with a more direct approach putting pressure on our defence and they succeeded and beat us because that quite simply is what works in league 1.I thought they beat us simply down to some poor defending at the death? Everybody now posting post match drop Collins probably had him in their starting 11 pre-match, including me! |
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Post by Gastafari on Nov 26, 2023 15:08:02 GMT
Do you watch the game? If so where did we struggle during the game? I know the question wasn’t for me but where we struggled was in our attacking movement / build up play. We matched derby for possession and successful passes but ours were probably 90% to feet - backs to goal and in a slow paced fashion. Derby looked to get behind us quickly with a more direct approach putting pressure on our defence and they succeeded and beat us because that quite simply is what works in league 1. Yet we created more than them. Harvey Vale got behind their defence quite a few times, especially 1st half by being direct,we were also a width of a post away from being 1-0 up at the break. I wouldn't call it struggling, we just need to be more clinical and ruthless which has been our issue all season. I've said it before, imo we are a good striker away from being a promotion team. I've heard people say, well look at Stevenage, but we used to play Football like Stevenage under Graham Coughlan but crowds were down and people were staying away and complaining about the dire Football. If we get a top striker, then I think we'll be near the top while also playing enjoyable Football in the main. |
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Post by socrates on Nov 26, 2023 15:40:05 GMT
I know the question wasn’t for me but where we struggled was in our attacking movement / build up play. We matched derby for possession and successful passes but ours were probably 90% to feet - backs to goal and in a slow paced fashion. Derby looked to get behind us quickly with a more direct approach putting pressure on our defence and they succeeded and beat us because that quite simply is what works in league 1.I thought they beat us simply down to some poor defending at the death? Everybody now posting post match drop Collins probably had him in their starting 11 pre-match, including me! Not me. Would have dropped him weeks ago. For me the issue is tempo of play and movement and that’s way above priority over who our number 9 is. |
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Post by socrates on Nov 26, 2023 15:45:40 GMT
I know the question wasn’t for me but where we struggled was in our attacking movement / build up play. We matched derby for possession and successful passes but ours were probably 90% to feet - backs to goal and in a slow paced fashion. Derby looked to get behind us quickly with a more direct approach putting pressure on our defence and they succeeded and beat us because that quite simply is what works in league 1. Yet we created more than them. Harvey Vale got behind their defence quite a few times, especially 1st half by being direct,we were also a width of a post away from being 1-0 up at the break. I wouldn't call it struggling, we just need to be more clinical and ruthless which has been our issue all season. I've said it before, imo we are a good striker away from being a promotion team. I've heard people say, well look at Stevenage, but we used to play Football like Stevenage under Graham Coughlan but crowds were down and people were staying away and complaining about the dire Football. If we get a top striker, then I think we'll be near the top while also playing enjoyable Football in the main. We ain’t gonna get anywhere near the play offs playing a slow patient backs to goal build up mate. Nobody will n league 1 ever does. We could sign JCH and he wouldn’t make much difference. Maybe the difference between finishing 15th and 10th because he’d be a small upgrade on Martin but look at what Peterborough are doing now , they’ve dropped him because he’s aging and the football with him in the side is too slow and predictable. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2023 16:28:48 GMT
Yet we created more than them. Harvey Vale got behind their defence quite a few times, especially 1st half by being direct,we were also a width of a post away from being 1-0 up at the break. I wouldn't call it struggling, we just need to be more clinical and ruthless which has been our issue all season. I've said it before, imo we are a good striker away from being a promotion team. I've heard people say, well look at Stevenage, but we used to play Football like Stevenage under Graham Coughlan but crowds were down and people were staying away and complaining about the dire Football. If we get a top striker, then I think we'll be near the top while also playing enjoyable Football in the main. We ain’t gonna get anywhere near the play offs playing a slow patient backs to goal build up mate. Nobody will n league 1 ever does. We could sign JCH and he wouldn’t make much difference. Maybe the difference between finishing 15th and 10th because he’d be a small upgrade on Martin but look at what Peterborough are doing now , they’ve dropped him because he’s aging and the football with him in the side is too slow and predictable. You make some brilliant points, Socrates. |
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Nov 26, 2023 16:45:20 GMT
We ain’t gonna get anywhere near the play offs playing a slow patient backs to goal build up mate. Nobody will n league 1 ever does. We could sign JCH and he wouldn’t make much difference. Maybe the difference between finishing 15th and 10th because he’d be a small upgrade on Martin but look at what Peterborough are doing now , they’ve dropped him because he’s aging and the football with him in the side is too slow and predictable. You make some brilliant points, Socrates. If we do sign jch, as he's had a history of scoring goals wherever he's been in recent history, would it be classed as predictable to carry on scoring goals for us? I quite like that type of predictability! |
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Post by Gastafari on Nov 26, 2023 16:50:08 GMT
Yet we created more than them. Harvey Vale got behind their defence quite a few times, especially 1st half by being direct,we were also a width of a post away from being 1-0 up at the break. I wouldn't call it struggling, we just need to be more clinical and ruthless which has been our issue all season. I've said it before, imo we are a good striker away from being a promotion team. I've heard people say, well look at Stevenage, but we used to play Football like Stevenage under Graham Coughlan but crowds were down and people were staying away and complaining about the dire Football. If we get a top striker, then I think we'll be near the top while also playing enjoyable Football in the main. We ain’t gonna get anywhere near the play offs playing a slow patient backs to goal build up mate. Nobody will n league 1 ever does. We could sign JCH and he wouldn’t make much difference. Maybe the difference between finishing 15th and 10th because he’d be a small upgrade on Martin but look at what Peterborough are doing now , they’ve dropped him because he’s aging and the football with him in the side is too slow and predictable. Well imo we will. We created more than Derby, we created more than Oxford, we created just as much as Peterborough, we created more than Barnsley, Portsmouth got a 98th minute equaliser against us when we should of been 2 or 3 up at Half Time. It's missed chances and a lack of killer instinct in front of goal that keeps costing us. It's not struggling to break teams down or actually creating openings and chances that's the issue, it's not putting them away that's the problem. |
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Post by socrates on Nov 26, 2023 16:56:12 GMT
You make some brilliant points, Socrates. If we do sign jch, as he's had a history of scoring goals wherever he's been in recent history, would it be classed as predictable to carry on scoring goals for us? I quite like that type of predictability! I think he’d probably continue to score goals yes. Would he be prolific for us like he was a few years ago I dunno ? Martins goals to minutes ratio for us must be pretty decent too mind and he’s constantly winning headers and flick ons but he’s got nobody running on to them cos we’ve not got the tempo or movement the majority of the time to support that kind of player. First half yesterday was decent but 2nd half we slowed right down so we are capable of it. I think JCH would be an upgrade on Martin but to just do that and continue playing the way we do and continue to for example keep starting Collins and leaving Thomas on the bench we wouldn’t actually improve that much. It’s easy to say we’re one decent striker away from being a top side but I think people saying that aren’t looking at us tactically at all. |
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Post by socrates on Nov 26, 2023 17:05:36 GMT
We ain’t gonna get anywhere near the play offs playing a slow patient backs to goal build up mate. Nobody will n league 1 ever does. We could sign JCH and he wouldn’t make much difference. Maybe the difference between finishing 15th and 10th because he’d be a small upgrade on Martin but look at what Peterborough are doing now , they’ve dropped him because he’s aging and the football with him in the side is too slow and predictable. Well imo we will. We created more than Derby, we created more than Oxford, we created just as much as Peterborough, we created more than Barnsley, Portsmouth got a 98th minute equaliser against us when we should of been 2 or 3 up at Half Time. It's missed chances and a lack of killer instinct in front of goal that keeps costing us. It's not struggling to break teams down or actually creating openings and chances that's the issue, it's not putting them away that's the problem. Martin is averaging a goal every two games for us which is pretty much what JCH did for us. We could sign JCH and he might not be as prolific as he was before and what we do then bench him for Martin because we’re scoring even less goals ? The problem is that by the time we get the ball in to the oppositions final third everything becomes difficult because our build up is so slow that teams are back in shape to block or hurry our shots. Just dropping Collins for Thomas in the next game and playing a quicker tempo game would help this regardless of whether we sign JCH in the summer or not. |
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Post by socrates on Nov 26, 2023 17:16:09 GMT
Looking at the xG stats right now and our expected goals per game is 1.35 a game.
And we score 1.35 goals a game.
So we’re not missing loads of chances we’re just not creating lots of very good scoring opportunities and that’s why we’re not scoring many goals.
I don’t base my opinions on Rovers on stats I base them on what I see because I’ve seen every game this season .
But in this instance the stats do back up what I see, we’re a side who like to knock it about at the back and midfield but by the time we get in to the final third we really struggle because we’re too slow with the ball and lack the movement tempo and creativity to be a top 6 side.
I really fail to see how signing JCH or a similar type of striker will solve that other than he might provide us with a better goals to games ratio than Martin.
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Post by playtowin on Nov 26, 2023 17:27:41 GMT
Do we think the current Rovers squad would play better and get more points if Pep or Klopp were manager ?
Genuine question.
If the answer is 'yes' then we have good enough players just need better leaders/coaches.
If 'no' then unless we improve the squad it will make little difference who the new manager is.
Most Derby vlogs ive seen seem to say Rovers were the better team but they were glad the Rams got the points even though they were poor.
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Post by socrates on Nov 26, 2023 17:27:58 GMT
I think we’ve struggled more against the teams that are nearer the bottom, teams that rely on a more direct style, against teams that try and play we more than hold our own Our major weakness is pace at the back, especially full back, we are massively vulnerable to teams with fast tricky wingers Any manager must be targeting a robust left back, and a pacy alternative up top. We are too predictable with Martin and Marquis. Need a better plan b. Not far off a very good side, few tweaks, who will be the man in the dugout to take us forward? Big decisions for the club. UTG Precisely. We've played our best Football against Portsmouth, Oxford, Barnsley etc. Portsmouth sneaked a last minute equaliser, we completely outplayed Oxford and Barnsley. We smashed Wigan 4-1 who if it weren't for points deductions would be comfortably top half. We beat Charlton away who are top half. Like you said it's the teams in the bottom half, Cambridge, Burton, Reading etc where we have actually struggled. I think we played our best football v Northampton , Port vale and Wigan. We won those games by getting on the front foot playing with tempo and in those games the team showed what they’re capable of when they do that. So many times since we won promotion from League 2 we’ve either drawn or lost after having a lot of the ball but not really troubled the opposition keeper only to look on here and read about what great football we played after. It’s the Gardiola effect and people in this country are brainwashed by it in my honest opinion. We struggled v some of the lower teams because Barton thought we were far superior and could pass them to death which was naive and big headed tactically. Mangans fans first game v Northampton who were 4th from bottom he scrapped that we played fast attacking football and it was open but we won. Against those sides is where you really have to play league 1 style football more than ever because a slow paced build up will get you nowhere as we found out in those games under Barton and recently v reading under Mangan. Derby are in a great run of form at home and they played a very quick counter direct style and won yesterday v our slow patient build up. |
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