Marshy
Proper Gas
Posts: 14,391
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Post by Marshy on Feb 2, 2024 17:19:54 GMT
Aside from the players, I'd like to see progress on: Backroom admin/running of the club Scouting and coaching set up The Quarters phase 2 Plans for the Mem rebuild phases 2A, 2B and 3 Busy few months, or not. 🤔 You do realise that this is Rovers we are talking about, right? 😂 Good luck 😁
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stuart1974
Proper Gas
Posts: 12,557
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Post by stuart1974 on Feb 2, 2024 17:48:28 GMT
Aside from the players, I'd like to see progress on: Backroom admin/running of the club Scouting and coaching set up The Quarters phase 2 Plans for the Mem rebuild phases 2A, 2B and 3 Busy few months, or not. 🤔 You do realise that this is Rovers we are talking about, right? 😂 Good luck 😁 Hence my last bit. 😇
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Post by mftc on Feb 2, 2024 17:50:43 GMT
People often cite the difficult second album for bands, but for footballers sometimes the second season is easier?
Hinton, Lescott, Elliott, Walker and Campbell were much, much better in their second season (mitigating factors such as change of manager, but some of them were actually playing out of position).
For Brown, moving to a new city, not knowing many people, the effect of the court case, being partially blamed for the fall out with Her Game Too, all that must have an effect.
I must admit I thought he was being signed as Collins replacement. Who knows, maybe he was told that, the £1million bid did not come in and he was then told he was going be a squad player.
All great for your confidence.
I suspect if he is here this time next season he will have accumulated many more goals and assists than he has currently.
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Post by neilv93 on Feb 3, 2024 14:43:50 GMT
I'd be happy if he did stay but also think it might be a good time to move on and go in different direction. He has some excellent moments in games/form but also some inconsistencies. Will be 32 in August and injuries are still a bit of a problem with him. Injuries are still a bit of a problem with him? Seems a bit harsh to me! So it begins haha!
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Post by yattongas on Feb 3, 2024 15:00:35 GMT
My thoughts exactly. It’s a huge rebuild and unless we are very lucky stability is going to take a while meaning yet another season might end up getting written off by Christmas. We should have got 3-4 in during January to get the rebuild underway and get newbies bedded in and ready to go from day one of next season. I agree, another two new faces would have been worth a little premium imo, within reason of course and that may have been a big influence. We've had double figure new players for a few summers now (does anyone know the actual numbers?) and a bit of consolidation would have been better. Looking at the squad, it may be we will need fewer, perhaps 6 or 7 but they will need to be First XI ready and that won't be cheap. Pretty much the model now in most teams below the championship I think , most teams seem to have quite a bit of a shake up in the off season.
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Post by returngas on Feb 3, 2024 15:04:00 GMT
Always a summer rebuild at this football club when there is no joined up thinking and succession plans in place. It's the way of the world now. Not just the Gas but at most clubs now. Only a minority of players stay anywhere for more than two or three or at best four seasons. Many grumble about current players and want them gone and cry out for new signings not like in the 60s where the same players played for the same club season after season. Same in all jobs the days of staying put for your career is something of the past. I only had 4 jobs in 45 plus years of working...my kids had that many before 30.
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Post by richard on Feb 3, 2024 19:28:22 GMT
Injuries are still a bit of a problem with him? Seems a bit harsh to me! So it begins haha! Haha! Think he’s been playing injured for a few weeks now which may be good timing as I’m not sure he gets back in with our new superstar!
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 3, 2024 20:16:05 GMT
People often cite the difficult second album for bands, but for footballers sometimes the second season is easier? Hinton, Lescott, Elliott, Walker and Campbell were much, much better in their second season (mitigating factors such as change of manager, but some of them were actually playing out of position). For Brown, moving to a new city, not knowing many people, the effect of the court case, being partially blamed for the fall out with Her Game Too, all that must have an effect. I must admit I thought he was being signed as Collins replacement. Who knows, maybe he was told that, the £1million bid did not come in and he was then told he was going be a squad player. All great for your confidence. I suspect if he is here this time next season he will have accumulated many more goals and assists than he has currently. Nothing I've seen of Brown so far suggests that we'll see many goals and assists from him.
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 4, 2024 7:41:47 GMT
I am getting fed up with us always having another rebuild. Good we got some bodies in, but we have loads of loans that will disappear at the end of the season. Let's face it there is no chance Vale will be with us next season. Cox is also a No. The new lads, probably not either. Whilst I do accept MT would like to bring his own players in, if it means we again sell our better players I will be most annoyed. Not with MT, but the board. I really think we could have done with making another permanent signing and done with integrating them. Why wait for the summer, everyone is trying to sign players so not sure why given we probably knew Collins was off, we never had all our ducks in a row to sign players. I don't buy into the idea you get a better deal in the summer, you pick up players who are surplus and there is usually a reason for that. Someone posted similar thoughts on Twitter yesterday and specifically mentioned the capacity in the squad is taken up by loans and we shouldn't have them. Because Pl teams vacuum any talent at such a young age it forces all clubs to take loans and all clubs in our league do it. Top 6 clubs with loans: Bolton, Stevenage 5 loans in. Portsmouth, Derby, Barnsley, Oxford 4 players. P'boro have 3. What causes our continual rebuild is 2 fold. Not having a DOF with a good scouting network which is built into the club where young talent is monitored, signed and developed. Giving contracts to older players or with players with low appearance rating due to injuries. Peterborough have a good model to follow. Players in the last year of any contract are transfer listed, a player is signed to the TL players position and he is either phased out or sold, JCH as an example. On top of that they recruit a youngster to the same position and develop them seeing whether he has what it takes to replace the player that's next in line. That model works well for developing players as well as increasing transfer revenue. Any transfer revenue that is made is then reinvested straight into the squad. It's no surprise that of the top 6 they have the least amount of loans (3) and that one of them, Mason-Clarke is a loan back after selling him to Coventry this window. It's a model that took Brentford and Luton to be prem and will be successful for us if the club had the vision to develop it. If you look at some of the recent signings we have made (Not including the Jan Window) we have given deals to players which have an average appearance of 22 games per season across their careers and they have been signed as what would be classed as first choice players. When that happens what it means is that you are pretty much guaranteed not to see those players for over half a season for the duration of their contract, regardless of how talented these players might be when they do appear. The likes of Wilson, Grant Ward, Hunt, Rossiter, Friend are all good players, but aren't consistent enough or fit enough to be reliable. Would any of these players sign for P'boro? No. Ian Atkins had a motto of only signing players that had played 30 games a season 3 times in 4. The side that Trolls inherited hardly had an injury for 2 years. Teams that get promoted do so because their first choice picks play together so regularly that their unit becomes unbreakable, reliable and it builds the team momentum. If we want to be successful we need a change of approach and hopefully MT, using his knowledge from Exeter can drive that change with us.
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 4, 2024 8:25:17 GMT
Last season Wilson played in Plymouth's promoted side and Hunt played in Sheffield Weds promoted side, I doubt their fitness dropped off a cliff over the summer?
Likewise Ward played half a season last season for us without any injury concerns. As did Rossiter the season before, I've no idea if the latter had a recurrence of his previous injury or an entirely new one.
Friend always seemed a dodgy signing but he looked total class yesterday. So perhaps worth a gamble.
It's easy to suggest we should only sign players who've never had an injury but how many of them are prepared to up sticks and move to Bristol for an average L1 wage?
As far as the Posh model this season we've got £750K for AC how much have they received? Even the young centre half still hasn't made his rumoured big money move to the Premiership.
We need a blend of players, ex Academy players like Ward & Hoole, signings like Conteh, experience like Wilson, and brilliant loans.
The club almost got it right but messed up with a goalie and waited too long to sign Martin/a striker then were unlucky with Wilson & Hunt, they were also probably not helped that AC clearly lost interest.
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Post by daniel300380 on Feb 4, 2024 9:08:14 GMT
I am getting fed up with us always having another rebuild. Good we got some bodies in, but we have loads of loans that will disappear at the end of the season. Let's face it there is no chance Vale will be with us next season. Cox is also a No. The new lads, probably not either. Whilst I do accept MT would like to bring his own players in, if it means we again sell our better players I will be most annoyed. Not with MT, but the board. I really think we could have done with making another permanent signing and done with integrating them. Why wait for the summer, everyone is trying to sign players so not sure why given we probably knew Collins was off, we never had all our ducks in a row to sign players. I don't buy into the idea you get a better deal in the summer, you pick up players who are surplus and there is usually a reason for that. Someone posted similar thoughts on Twitter yesterday and specifically mentioned the capacity in the squad is taken up by loans and we shouldn't have them. Because Pl teams vacuum any talent at such a young age it forces all clubs to take loans and all clubs in our league do it. Top 6 clubs with loans: Bolton, Stevenage 5 loans in. Portsmouth, Derby, Barnsley, Oxford 4 players. P'boro have 3. What causes our continual rebuild is 2 fold. Not having a DOF with a good scouting network which is built into the club where young talent is monitored, signed and developed. Giving contracts to older players or with players with low appearance rating due to injuries. Peterborough have a good model to follow. Players in the last year of any contract are transfer listed, a player is signed to the TL players position and he is either phased out or sold, JCH as an example. On top of that they recruit a youngster to the same position and develop them seeing whether he has what it takes to replace the player that's next in line. That model works well for developing players as well as increasing transfer revenue. Any transfer revenue that is made is then reinvested straight into the squad. It's no surprise that of the top 6 they have the least amount of loans (3) and that one of them, Mason-Clarke is a loan back after selling him to Coventry this window. It's a model that took Brentford and Luton to be prem and will be successful for us if the club had the vision to develop it. If you look at some of the recent signings we have made (Not including the Jan Window) we have given deals to players which have an average appearance of 22 games per season across their careers and they have been signed as what would be classed as first choice players. When that happens what it means is that you are pretty much guaranteed not to see those players for over half a season for the duration of their contract, regardless of how talented these players might be when they do appear. The likes of Wilson, Grant Ward, Hunt, Rossiter, Friend are all good players, but aren't consistent enough or fit enough to be reliable. Would any of these players sign for P'boro? No. Ian Atkins had a motto of only signing players that had played 30 games a season 3 times in 4. The side that Trolls inherited hardly had an injury for 2 years. Teams that get promoted do so because their first choice picks play together so regularly that their unit becomes unbreakable, reliable and it builds the team momentum. If we want to be successful we need a change of approach and hopefully MT, using his knowledge from Exeter can drive that change with us. Last season Plymouth won the league with a lot of loan players starting most games. They signed 2 of them on permanents this season and another returned on loan. This season they have a lot of loan players starting again. We signed Thomas, Taylor and Connolly after loans and we tried to sign Gibson but he choose to go to Plymouth instead and has been one of their best players this season. I agree developing your own players is key as well. We signed Conseh with a view to doing that, Jed Ward has started the last few games. But there is no reason, why you can't have a lot of loan players in the squad as well. A lot of clubs sign them on permanents after, as their clubs want to cash in while they can and don't know if they will make it We all remember how important Anderson was when we went up. But Taylor, Connolly and Thomas all played a role for us and are now our players. Even Spence got some key goals against Walsall although he did nothing else apart from that. Last season Bogarde did okay for us and returned this season, although he was disappointing.
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 4, 2024 10:10:18 GMT
Last season Wilson played in Plymouth's promoted side and Hunt played in Sheffield Weds promoted side, I doubt their fitness dropped off a cliff over the summer? Likewise Ward played half a season last season for us without any injury concerns. As did Rossiter the season before, I've no idea if the latter had a recurrence of his previous injury or an entirely new one. Friend always seemed a dodgy signing but he looked total class yesterday. So perhaps worth a gamble. It's easy to suggest we should only sign players who've never had an injury but how many of them are prepared to up sticks and move to Bristol for an average L1 wage? As far as the Posh model this season we've got £750K for AC how much have they received? Even the young centre half still hasn't made his rumoured big money move to the Premiership. We need a blend of players, ex Academy players like Ward & Hoole, signings like Conteh, experience like Wilson, and brilliant loans. The club almost got it right but messed up with a goalie and waited too long to sign Martin/a striker then were unlucky with Wilson & Hunt, they were also probably not helped that AC clearly lost interest. You cannot rely on a player having one good season ever 4 or 5 seasons in terms of appearances and how well they did in the team or where they finished in the league. Especially when that player is 34. You need to look at all of his seasons and whether he has played regularly a full season or reasonably close to it. Wilson has averaged 22 games a season across his playing career and only managed a full season 4 times in 15. Rossiter has never played more than 15 games in a whole season let alone managing a whole half season. Ward has averaged 27 games a season across 9 seasons and has never played a full season. Friend has averaged 24 games a season and played a full season once. What that means is that across a season you'll likely only manage half a season out of them, so why sign them as a view to being first choice? The odds are stacked against you from the off. The logical gamble out of the players mentioned is Hunt. 31 game averaged but 2 heavy injuries and has played a full season only 3 times across his career. When you factor in we have players like Grant already signed up dogged with injuries signing players with terrible injury records to be first choice makes no sense and why we seriously need at a player recruitment philosophy shift.
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pirate
Forum Legend
Posts: 19,461
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Post by pirate on Feb 4, 2024 12:56:27 GMT
As far as the Posh model this season we've got £750K for AC how much have they received? Even the young centre half still hasn't made his rumoured big money move to the Premiership. Topper arguing against Peterborough's transfer model now? Lol. This season they received around £1.5m plus add-ons for a player Jack Taylor that was entering the final year of his contract and 750k for a player Joe Taylor they picked up for peanuts from non-league. (EDIT: They also sold a 17-year-old youth product Benjamin Arthur from their Cat 2 academy for over £1m plus add-ons.) The previous summer they received £1.8m for Sammie Szmodics and the summer before that around £1.25m for Mo Eisa and £2m plus add-ons for Siriki Dembele. All that while maintaining promotion challenges.
The recruitment model has been very successful under the ownership of MacAnthony.
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Post by returnofthedust on Feb 4, 2024 12:59:10 GMT
As far as the Posh model this season we've got £750K for AC how much have they received? Even the young centre half still hasn't made his rumoured big money move to the Premiership. Topper arguing against Peterborough's transfer model now? Lol. This season they received around £1.5m plus add-ons for a player Jack Taylor that was entering the final year of his contract and 750k for a player Joe Taylor they picked up for peanuts from non-league. The previous summer they received £1.8m for Sammie Szmodics and the summer before that around £1.25m for Mo Eisa and £2m plus add-ons for Siriki Dembele. All that while maintaining promotion challenges.
The recruitment model has been very successful under the ownership of MacAnthony. View Attachment
He’ll argue with anything that bloke.
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 4, 2024 13:19:28 GMT
Topper arguing against Peterborough's transfer model now? Lol. This season they received around £1.5m plus add-ons for a player Jack Taylor that was entering the final year of his contract and 750k for a player Joe Taylor they picked up for peanuts from non-league. The previous summer they received £1.8m for Sammie Szmodics and the summer before that around £1.25m for Mo Eisa and £2m plus add-ons for Siriki Dembele. All that while maintaining promotion challenges.
The recruitment model has been very successful under the ownership of MacAnthony. View Attachment
He’ll argue with anything that bloke. If he's the only bloke in the room he'd have one with his own shadow.
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Post by yattongas on Feb 4, 2024 13:22:45 GMT
He’ll argue with anything that bloke. If he's the only bloke in the room he'd have one with his own shadow. Speaks two blokes who love a good argument! 😂👍
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Post by returnofthedust on Feb 4, 2024 13:33:11 GMT
If he's the only bloke in the room he'd have one with his own shadow. Speaks two blokes who love a good argument! 😂👍 Only when it’s something I feel passionate about. Topper changes his opinion like the wind 👍🏻
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 4, 2024 13:38:38 GMT
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Post by Topper Gas on Feb 4, 2024 13:49:48 GMT
Last season Wilson played in Plymouth's promoted side and Hunt played in Sheffield Weds promoted side, I doubt their fitness dropped off a cliff over the summer? Likewise Ward played half a season last season for us without any injury concerns. As did Rossiter the season before, I've no idea if the latter had a recurrence of his previous injury or an entirely new one. Friend always seemed a dodgy signing but he looked total class yesterday. So perhaps worth a gamble. It's easy to suggest we should only sign players who've never had an injury but how many of them are prepared to up sticks and move to Bristol for an average L1 wage? As far as the Posh model this season we've got £750K for AC how much have they received? Even the young centre half still hasn't made his rumoured big money move to the Premiership. We need a blend of players, ex Academy players like Ward & Hoole, signings like Conteh, experience like Wilson, and brilliant loans. The club almost got it right but messed up with a goalie and waited too long to sign Martin/a striker then were unlucky with Wilson & Hunt, they were also probably not helped that AC clearly lost interest. You cannot rely on a player having one good season ever 4 or 5 seasons in terms of appearances and how well they did in the team or where they finished in the league. Especially when that player is 34. You need to look at all of his seasons and whether he has played regularly a full season or reasonably close to it. Wilson has averaged 22 games a season across his playing career and only managed a full season 4 times in 15. Rossiter has never played more than 15 games in a whole season let alone managing a whole half season. Ward has averaged 27 games a season across 9 seasons and has never played a full season. Friend has averaged 24 games a season and played a full season once. What that means is that across a season you'll likely only manage half a season out of them, so why sign them as a view to being first choice? The odds are stacked against you from the off. The logical gamble out of the players mentioned is Hunt. 31 game averaged but 2 heavy injuries and has played a full season only 3 times across his career. When you factor in we have players like Grant already signed up dogged with injuries signing players with terrible injury records to be first choice makes no sense and why we seriously need at a player recruitment philosophy shift. But can we afford a shift or do we have to gamble on potentially injury prone players and loan signings? Just look at this window we paid a big transfer fee for a DCM and the only other signings were loan players. There's also the pressure from fans to be successful, so we can't bring in many of the likes of Gordon hoping that he can develop over a couple of seasons. MT will do well to sign up to a dozen 20+ year old L1 standard players who have no prior injury issues. So far the one he has signed has cost us £300K in transfer fees alone.
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Post by gashead1981 on Feb 4, 2024 14:32:41 GMT
If he's the only bloke in the room he'd have one with his own shadow. Speaks two blokes who love a good argument! 😂👍 Difference is Yatton I'm always right...😉😂
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