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Post by aghast on Sept 20, 2024 16:17:18 GMT
You’re dismissing other people’s views as nonsense, not me . 😂🙄 Yes that’s the point!! I have a different opinion🤦♂️ You’re suggesting someone (MT)is to be more valued an opinion and in turn ‘right’, because he is an ex pro player! Managing is different to playing and now he has to manage people rather than play football….Peter Principle….his old job (playing) has no relation to his current one (managing people). But unless you've played or managed in professional football your opinion carries no more weight than any amateur pundit. Maybe you have?
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on Sept 20, 2024 16:32:22 GMT
Yes that’s the point!! I have a different opinion🤦♂️ You’re suggesting someone (MT)is to be more valued an opinion and in turn ‘right’, because he is an ex pro player! Managing is different to playing and now he has to manage people rather than play football….Peter Principle….his old job (playing) has no relation to his current one (managing people). But unless you've played or managed in professional football your opinion carries no more weight than any amateur pundit. Maybe you have? Oh come on aghast, it’s obviously Joey. 👀
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Post by igotgas on Sept 20, 2024 16:47:39 GMT
Yes that’s the point!! I have a different opinion🤦♂️ You’re suggesting someone (MT)is to be more valued an opinion and in turn ‘right’, because he is an ex pro player! Managing is different to playing and now he has to manage people rather than play football….Peter Principle….his old job (playing) has no relation to his current one (managing people). But unless you've played or managed in professional football your opinion carries no more weight than any amateur pundit. Maybe you have? No that’s my point. I was questioned on my coaching credentials because my opinion differs from many and I have an opinion on where MT is going wrong. It was suggested that he knew more than me because he was in pro football. He may well do but it won’t change my opinion or my right to an opinion, on the fact I think he’s making a mess of the season start and 7 games in he has no idea what to do next. The fact is as a pro footballer you’re not automatically geared to being a manager and the skill set is entirely different hence the Peter Principle. Eventually if you’re good at your job you will be promoted to a position that you have no skill set to do. Football management is very little to do with football and everything to do with people….players / staff / fans and managing up and down is a new skill that you never needed as a player where the only thing you had to worry about was yourself. My opinion is as valid as yours or anyone’s and on a discussion forum I thought I was ok to discuss what I think is right or wrong.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Sept 20, 2024 17:03:24 GMT
But unless you've played or managed in professional football your opinion carries no more weight than any amateur pundit. Maybe you have? No that’s my point. I was questioned on my coaching credentials because my opinion differs from many and I have an opinion on where MT is going wrong. It was suggested that he knew more than me because he was in pro football. He may well do but it won’t change my opinion or my right to an opinion, on the fact I think he’s making a mess of the season start and 7 games in he has no idea what to do next. The fact is as a pro footballer you’re not automatically geared to being a manager and the skill set is entirely different hence the Peter Principle. Eventually if you’re good at your job you will be promoted to a position that you have no skill set to do. Football management is very little to do with football and everything to do with people….players / staff / fans and managing up and down is a new skill that you never needed as a player where the only thing you had to worry about was yourself. My opinion is as valid as yours or anyone’s and on a discussion forum I thought I was ok to discuss what I think is right or wrong. But you said another posters opinion was nonsense?
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Post by igotgas on Sept 20, 2024 17:08:23 GMT
Yeah IMO it was!
ITS A FOOTBALL DISCUSSION!!!
I don’t have to have something quantifiable to be able to have a valued opinion.
You can read. As can anyone else. Over time you’ll be able to make in informed opinion on whether you value my opinion or not based on a) how accurate it ends up being and / or b) how much logic is seemingly applied and evident.
You do you my friend.
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Post by igotgas on Sept 20, 2024 17:11:07 GMT
For the record and to keep it simple, imo opinion I think MT is making a bloody mess for himself and in 6 weeks he’ll wish he could wipe it clean and start afresh….if he doesn’t already.
It’s also my opinion that from what I’ve seen I have no bloody idea whatsoever what we’re good at or what we are trying to identify as other than run around a lot and if that doesn’t work I’ll change players and ask them to run around a lot.
We’ll win some and lose some and it’ll be in completely random patterns from one week to the next.
What you never see with that format is gradual progression.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Sept 20, 2024 17:29:53 GMT
For the record and to keep it simple, imo opinion I think MT is making a bloody mess for himself and in 6 weeks he’ll wish he could wipe it clean and start afresh….if he doesn’t already. It’s also my opinion that from what I’ve seen I have no bloody idea whatsoever what we’re good at or what we are trying to identify as other than run around a lot and if that doesn’t work I’ll change players and ask them to run around a lot. We’ll win some and lose some and it’ll be in completely random patterns from one week to the next. What you never see with that format is gradual progression. Ok , but most fans were of the opinion that this would be a difficult season. Lots of money flying around amongst other clubs and we’ve also got a new squad pretty much. So we will have sporadic results , some unexpected wins and a few tankings along the way. patience is needed and lot of permutations tried out until things click .
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Post by aforce on Sept 20, 2024 17:32:44 GMT
It’s quite sad to see that we aspire to be and expect a heavy defeat against a team that have basically sold anything that’s worth anything to anyone for 20 plus years
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Post by gasify on Sept 20, 2024 17:55:34 GMT
It’s quite sad to see that we aspire to be and expect a heavy defeat against a team that have basically sold anything that’s worth anything to anyone for 20 plus yearsThey've always had the replacements before they sell the player worth anything. Love them or loathe them, they seem to be doing more than just surviving and that £4m windfall from Ivan Tony is an absolute bonus for them. I give loads more respect to this business model than Birminghams model of bringing in wealthy owners. Football shouldn't really be about who can gift a club the most money. Peterborough do earn theirs.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 20, 2024 18:05:33 GMT
It’s quite sad to see that we aspire to be and expect a heavy defeat against a team that have basically sold anything that’s worth anything to anyone for 20 plus yearsThey've always had the replacements before they sell the player worth anything. Love them or loathe them, they seem to be doing more than just surviving and that £4m windfall from Ivan Tony is an absolute bonus for them. I give loads more respect to this business model than Birminghams model of bringing in wealthy owners. Football shouldn't really be about who can gift a club the most money. Peterborough do earn theirs. How can Rovers fans complain about another L1 club being bankrolled by wealthy foreign owners when that's just what is happening at Rovers, just to a lesser degree? Probably only the likes of Exeter & Shrewsbury don't have foreign Investors, I think even Peterborough have American co-owners. Tomorrow's game will be an interesting one as the pro MT camp claim we're only struggling because he brought in 16 news players in the summer, however, Posh brought in 12 and lost probably 3 of their best players, so they should really be similarly struggling, although according to MT yesterday that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 20, 2024 18:14:06 GMT
For the record and to keep it simple, imo opinion I think MT is making a bloody mess for himself and in 6 weeks he’ll wish he could wipe it clean and start afresh….if he doesn’t already. It’s also my opinion that from what I’ve seen I have no bloody idea whatsoever what we’re good at or what we are trying to identify as other than run around a lot and if that doesn’t work I’ll change players and ask them to run around a lot. We’ll win some and lose some and it’ll be in completely random patterns from one week to the next. What you never see with that format is gradual progression. Ok , but most fans were of the opinion that this would be a difficult season. Lots of money flying around amongst other clubs and we’ve also got a new squad pretty much. So we will have sporadic results , some unexpected wins and a few tankings along the way. patience is needed and lot of permutations tried out until things click . Who are all these fans who expected a difficult season? I thought most expected a mid table finish at worse with the hope we might make a top 10 or better push? I can't see players like PC & Forde's resale values are going to increase playing every week in a relegation threaten side.
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Post by igotgas on Sept 20, 2024 18:20:58 GMT
Ok , but most fans were of the opinion that this would be a difficult season. Lots of money flying around amongst other clubs and we’ve also got a new squad pretty much. So we will have sporadic results , some unexpected wins and a few tankings along the way. patience is needed and lot of permutations tried out until things click . No but you haven’t really understood anything I’ve said. Taking time to settle, a tough league, new squad etc are all valid reasons for progress to be slow. But it still has to be progress. What we have is a slapdash ad-hoc manner in which the team have appeared to be put together, chopped and changed in the one area that needs continuity and understanding, needlessly searching for a mythical formula that doesn’t exist. It’s the lack of a clear identity and a plan as to how to get the best out of players using a simple logical process. If I could see a pattern of play, an evolution of style or signs that things are being pieced together I’d give him all the time he needs but each week he’s chucking the baby out with the bath water and ripping up the formula and trying something else! Against Cambridge he thought he’d cracked it and it took a professional football manager a week and a different opponent to work out that the main reason it looked good was that Cambridge were absolute dog sh**e not that he’d found the right formula! A week later the personnel is changed and a week later it’s changed again. It’s sh** at a fan management. We lose tomorrow and the midfield will change again next week guaranteed.
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on Sept 20, 2024 18:40:24 GMT
Jesus wept, I need a fecking holiday! 😤 Faithful & true, I’m not sure that some people understand that simple concept 🤷♂️.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 20, 2024 18:45:13 GMT
Assuming you're referring to the changes MT made to the midfield how many were enforced due to injury etc rather than a bit of DC like tinkering?
MT's started every game with 3 at the back, and the same nucleus of players i.e. Bola, Wilson, Moore, in defence, Bilingo & MT at wing backs and Sortirio & Omochere upfront, it's not like he's making wholesale changes in formation and personnel each game.
Personally I feel we needed a dominant CH, and a quality ACM but Taylor's never really found his form since he returned from Stoke and Ward as struggled all season and Hutchinson seems more a Westbrook than a Ward type player.
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 20, 2024 18:48:39 GMT
Jesus wept, I need a fecking holiday! 😤 Faithful & true, I’m not sure that some people understand that simple concept 🤷♂️. There's no such thing at Rovers or with football fans generally, that's why our gates drop like a stone when fans sense we're in for a poor season, under JB we were pushing 9,000 home fans when we were playing well, now we're heading for 7,000 and that could drop as low as 6,000 by the winter for mid week games if things don't improve soon
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Post by igotgas on Sept 20, 2024 19:07:58 GMT
Assuming you're referring to the changes MT made to the midfield how many were enforced due to injury etc rather than a bit of DC like tinkering? The only enforced ones were Conteh v Barnsley and then Ward v Wigan. We started the season with Ward / Conteh / Hutchinson. That really wasn’t as bad as some are making out and 2 clean sheets and a tough game v Stockport was a reasonable start. But we weren’t happy with the work ‘with the ball’. Cambridge saw Garrett come in and we saw the emperor in his new clothes and MT proclaimed himself as clever for spotting how the midfield hasn’t been working and Garrett was the thing we’d been missing and it was the BEST we’d been with the ball. One game later and we barely saw the ball v Barnsley and I know people will argue different but we chased shadows. It was now apparently because Conteh was missing and it was hard to defend without his presence and McCormick was the fall guy. By half time and two corners v Wigan it was Hutchinsons fault and we looked all over the place defensively and that was with Conteh playing….now it was because we missed Ward and people started noticing the emperor actually wasn’t wearing new clothes and people started seeing Garrett was naked. A change of system and 5 subs later it was the worst performance people had seen in a long long time and Conteh wasn’t the saviour as we lost 4-0. A week later and we’re looking at Lindsay being the missing piece (I actually think he is important!) and our hopes are pinned on the 17 year old who didn’t even make the bench last week while a fit ward is back but out the team along with “our brightest creative spark” (MTs words last week) LT!! Hutchinson started 3….didnt get on for 2….started the next one…dragged off at half time. Macca was a sub for tired forwards all pre season and for first three games…then a starter in CM….then does’t even appear off the bench in a 4-0 loss. Kofi was on the bench….out the squad all together…on the bench and came on….out the squad all together….now looks like starting. It’s just so random!! As are the scorelines…..WdLWLL….as are the goals conceded..0..0..2..0..2..4 The only consistent thing is the goals scored….1..0..0..2..1..0 The criticism after 3 clean sheets in 4 was not scored enough…now we don’t score enough and keep conceding. The possession stats are bottom of the league…the shots conceded at bottom of the league…. I just don’t see progress in any department. Genuine question, do you?
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Sept 20, 2024 19:13:57 GMT
Ok , but most fans were of the opinion that this would be a difficult season. Lots of money flying around amongst other clubs and we’ve also got a new squad pretty much. So we will have sporadic results , some unexpected wins and a few tankings along the way. patience is needed and lot of permutations tried out until things click . No but you haven’t really understood anything I’ve said. Taking time to settle, a tough league, new squad etc are all valid reasons for progress to be slow. But it still has to be progress. What we have is a slapdash ad-hoc manner in which the team have appeared to be put together, chopped and changed in the one area that needs continuity and understanding, needlessly searching for a mythical formula that doesn’t exist. It’s the lack of a clear identity and a plan as to how to get the best out of players using a simple logical process. If I could see a pattern of play, an evolution of style or signs that things are being pieced together I’d give him all the time he needs but each week he’s chucking the baby out with the bath water and ripping up the formula and trying something else! Against Cambridge he thought he’d cracked it and it took a professional football manager a week and a different opponent to work out that the main reason it looked good was that Cambridge were absolute dog sh**e not that he’d found the right formula! A week later the personnel is changed and a week later it’s changed again. It’s sh** at a fan management. We lose tomorrow and the midfield will change again next week guaranteed. I’ve understood everything you’ve said , it’s just I disagree 🙄
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Post by igotgas on Sept 20, 2024 19:21:15 GMT
You haven’t understood of you think it’s all ok and it’s just a season for finding life tough and winning a few and losing a few.
The aim….regardless of results is to see improvement…on a gradual process if needs be. Results will eventually reflect that.
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Sept 20, 2024 19:25:06 GMT
You haven’t understood of you think it’s all ok and it’s just a season for finding life tough and winning a few and losing a few. The aim….regardless of results is to see improvement…on a gradual process if needs be. Results will eventually reflect that. We’ve played 6 games ffs 🤦♂️ I was a manager for a couple of seasons at Portishead fc , believe me sometimes you think you’ve hit on the magic formula and your midfield is brilliant. The same setup the next week looks like they’ve never met each other !
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Post by igotgas on Sept 20, 2024 19:34:02 GMT
You haven’t understood of you think it’s all ok and it’s just a season for finding life tough and winning a few and losing a few. The aim….regardless of results is to see improvement…on a gradual process if needs be. Results will eventually reflect that. We’ve played 6 games ffs 🤦♂️ I was a manager for a couple of seasons at Portishead fc , believe me sometimes you think you’ve hit on the magic formula and your midfield is brilliant. The same setup the next week looks like they’ve never met each other ! I agree and the good managers don’t throw away all the good work based on the poor one and they go away and work at the faults and retain the good. I haven’t seen that. It’s like a set of scales and MT just keeps lumping all the weight from one side to the other.
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