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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Oct 7, 2016 5:44:21 GMT
With No Rovers for over a week and two England games fast approaching beforehand , thought we could discuss some international football?
What are people's opinions on Southgate? As long as he does as well as or better then I can't see the FA looking elsewhere to be honest.
First thought was totally against appointment.
- Poor record managing Boro. - Not pulled up any trees with U21's - Too nice - Strikes me as a bit of a loser? - Do we need someone completely new to freshen things up?
Positives: - I have been banging on about this England team has a lack of leadership and that is our biggest problem, Southgate has identified this. - Not afraid to call up players from smaller clubs, Michael Keane will cement his place in the team eventually, him and Stones excite me as a potential partnership - Passionate - On the surface, he seems a decent honest bloke so should be no worries with media stories - Is the fact he is a nice bloke a plus at international football?
If I'm being honest, I'm totally lost as to what sort of manager we want/need at international level. If you look at a lot of managers who have won the big international competitions in the past, they don't have much of a record at club level?
I guess we will have to see how we get on these next 2 games but here's hoping he surprises most of us.
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Post by socrates on Oct 7, 2016 6:35:16 GMT
With No Rovers for over a week and two England games fast approaching beforehand , thought we could discuss some international football? What are people's opinions on Southgate? As long as he does as well as or better then I can't see the FA looking elsewhere to be honest. First thought was totally against appointment. - Poor record managing Boro. - Not pulled up any trees with U21's - Too nice - Strikes me as a bit of a loser? - Do we need someone completely new to freshen things up? Positives: - I have been banging on about this England team has a lack of leadership and that is our biggest problem, Southgate has identified this. - Not afraid to call up players from smaller clubs, Michael Keane will cement his place in the team eventually, him and Stones excite me as a potential partnership - Passionate - On the surface, he seems a decent honest bloke so should be no worries with media stories - Is the fact he is a nice bloke a plus at international football? If I'm being honest, I'm totally lost as to what sort of manager we want/need at international level. If you look at a lot of managers who have won the big international competitions in the past, they don't have much of a record at club level? I guess we will have to see how we get on these next 2 games but here's hoping he surprises most of us. We need someone who can motivate the players to the point where they care as much as they do for their clubs and to the point that they believe they can win a tournament. Our national side have been bottlers for too long. We need the best sports psychologist in the game to work closely with them. Ability wise we are up there but what we lack is everything else and ability on its own is not enough. I'm not saying we are good enough to win a tournament we probably aren't but we need our players to believe we can and only then will we beat the likes of Russia and Iceland and compete against the likes of Spain and Germany. The players don't need coaching they need motivation and belief.
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Post by RD on Oct 7, 2016 6:53:18 GMT
Not Rovers related
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Post by RD on Oct 7, 2016 6:54:40 GMT
Seriously though, it doesn't make a difference. You could put Pep or any manager in the world in charge and we'd still be sh*t.
Our players just aren't THAT good. Better than we've shown, yes; but still not good enough to win a major tournament.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Oct 7, 2016 7:07:13 GMT
With No Rovers for over a week and two England games fast approaching beforehand , thought we could discuss some international football? What are people's opinions on Southgate? As long as he does as well as or better then I can't see the FA looking elsewhere to be honest. First thought was totally against appointment. - Poor record managing Boro. - Not pulled up any trees with U21's - Too nice - Strikes me as a bit of a loser? - Do we need someone completely new to freshen things up? Positives: - I have been banging on about this England team has a lack of leadership and that is our biggest problem, Southgate has identified this. - Not afraid to call up players from smaller clubs, Michael Keane will cement his place in the team eventually, him and Stones excite me as a potential partnership - Passionate - On the surface, he seems a decent honest bloke so should be no worries with media stories - Is the fact he is a nice bloke a plus at international football? If I'm being honest, I'm totally lost as to what sort of manager we want/need at international level. If you look at a lot of managers who have won the big international competitions in the past, they don't have much of a record at club level? I guess we will have to see how we get on these next 2 games but here's hoping he surprises most of us. We need someone who can motivate the players to the point where they care as much as they do for their clubs and to the point that they believe they can win a tournament. Our national side have been bottlers for too long. We need the best sports psychologist in the game to work closely with them. Ability wise we are up there but what we lack is everything else and ability on its own is not enough. I'm not saying we are good enough to win a tournament we probably aren't but we need our players to believe we can and only then will we beat the likes of Russia and Iceland and compete against the likes of Spain and Germany.The players don't need coaching they need motivation and belief. Agree, we are miles away at the moment to be honest. This sounds arrogant but beating the likes of Russia and Iceland should be a given for us, well it used to be anyway. But yeah, just competing against the big teams would be a start. If you think back a few years ago we had so many potential captains/leaders: Beckham Gerrard Terry Ferdinand Then chuck in the experience of your Lampards/Ashley Cole's/Rooney etc. I think we have some potentially decent players but that means nothing with no leadership.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Oct 7, 2016 7:12:02 GMT
Seriously though, it doesn't make a difference. You could put Pep or any manager in the world in charge and we'd still be sh*t. Our players just aren't THAT good. Better than we've shown, yes; but still not good enough to win a major tournament. We are overrated, no doubting that. But we are capable of a lot better. The Euro's was dogshit in terms of quality, Wales reaching the semis proved that. They had togetherness, leadership and one world class player. We had none of those 3 things.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 7:24:16 GMT
I always used to wonder why English players don't get signed by big teams abroad anymore, then one day I realise that none of our players are world class, not one.
Players get played who are not in form (Ross Barkley, Jordan Henderson, Reheem Sterling, Adam Lallana) unfit (Jack Wiltshire, Jordan Henderson) or just not good enough (Kyle Walker, Ross Barkley, Danny Rose, Ryan Bertrand)
I have a gripe with playing players recovering from injury, and using a competitive European competition to do that. I'm sorry but if they are not match fit when the squad is to be named then they do not go.
Then big Sam comes in and picks the same sh** and plays the same way, so thank * he is gone.
As has been said, it may not be a manager with a great club track record to set us straight, but then have we even got the players to compete with the best in the world (?) as many are sat on the bench whilst foreign players who are good enough are in their spots.
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Post by brislingtonred on Oct 7, 2016 8:33:57 GMT
I think the players are good enough but for some reason when they play for England there is a clear fear of failure. Look how much the likes of Henderson and Lallana have improved under a top class club manager.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Oct 7, 2016 8:43:51 GMT
I think the players are good enough but for some reason when they play for England there is a clear fear of failure. Look how much the likes of Henderson and Lallana have improved under a top class club manager. This of course coming from a Liverpool fan Brislington... I'm a big fan of Lallana though. Good on the ball and works hard off it. Henderson is not good enough IMO.
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Post by brislingtonred on Oct 7, 2016 8:58:11 GMT
I think the players are good enough but for some reason when they play for England there is a clear fear of failure. Look how much the likes of Henderson and Lallana have improved under a top class club manager. This of course coming from a Liverpool fan Brislington... I'm a big fan of Lallana though. Good on the ball and works hard off it. Henderson is not good enough IMO. Technically Lallana is the best footballer we have he just needs to be more consistent.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 9:21:13 GMT
This of course coming from a Liverpool fan Brislington... I'm a big fan of Lallana though. Good on the ball and works hard off it. Henderson is not good enough IMO. Technically Lallana is the best footballer we have he just needs to be more consistent.
To play for England you should be consistent. The trouble is many aren't getting regular game time because the foreign players are cheaper and better (which is why we are rubbish at International level) There is not one English player who you can truly call world class and there lies part of the problem.
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Post by 2nd May 1990 on Oct 7, 2016 9:29:05 GMT
Lallana's always eye catching as he has good technique and is direct, but he often makes poor decisions when it matters and lacks the composure to produce the final product that would make him an excellent player. Hopefully this will improve. He has started the season well, to be fair.
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Post by Squiffy on Oct 7, 2016 10:07:34 GMT
Successful league managers and successful tournament managers are not necessarily the same animal; the most extreme example being Martinez when he was with Wigan winning the FA Cup but being relegated from the Prem in the same season. There are obviously a select few who have managed the double, like Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger of old, but a different skill set is required when virtually every game is a must win scenario. The pressure that brings must be immense, so the England job that comes with the baggage of 66, a vitriolic press and the cynicism of the armchair football fan is certainly not for the feint hearted. In theory, someone who can organise a disparate group of moderately talented individuals, engenders a never say die attitude and sets a team up to win every game, first by neutralising the opposition before going for the jugular ought to be successful. Sounds familiar? Thank the Lord that DC has focused on the league!
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Post by beaver132 on Oct 7, 2016 11:09:07 GMT
I'm more concerned hearing one of the players this morning saying that they've agreed they will take responsibility on the pitch for performances. Oh! Thanks! Very big of you! So, you haven't then? Just moped about clueless like you did against Iceland. Couldn't find it in your tiny brains, too awash with cash to decide among yourselves that you needed to get it together, to string two passes together? Then, he goes onto say 'so if we're having problems with Malta well take responsibility, but not panic' WHAT??! "Having problems with Malta." Are you taking the mick? Oh, for the love of God, please tell me it's not real.
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Post by warehamgas on Oct 7, 2016 11:48:21 GMT
I'm more concerned hearing one of the players this morning saying that they've agreed they will take responsibility on the pitch for performances. Oh! Thanks! Very big of you! So, you haven't then? Just moped about clueless like you did against Iceland. Couldn't find it in your tiny brains, too awash with cash to decide among yourselves that you needed to get it together, to string two passes together? Then, he goes onto say 'so if we're having problems with Malta well take responsibility, but not panic' WHAT??! "Having problems with Malta." Are you taking the mick? Oh, for the love of God, please tell me it's not real. Thought exactly the same. Why do players think they will do it differently now? Have they not taken responsibility in the past? Are they not capable of independent thoughts? They really are stupid or just pig ignorant. After watching this Summer I think we all know the answers to these! Hodgson had his limitations as we knew but what players have come out with in the last week is unbelievable. So they will take responsibility in future, honestly if you made it up into a story no one would believe it. On the OP I feel Southgate might have been the only real choice. In pure football terms I still like Glenn Hoddle but not having managed a team anywhere for over 10 years and non footballing reasons have worked against him though other people have been forgiven for saying stupid things. I wonder if Southgate is a bit like Trollope, a really decent guy who has a fairly good coaching record but who may be too nice to be a manager. I guess as England manager it is better to be a better coach than manager though. He will need to man-manage but it must be a very different role than that he carried out at Middlesbrough. I think having played at the highest level as an England player will give him credibility and he is going to be more involved with the coaching than others might have been. I think it's a pretty good appointment given the lack of alternative English-born candidates and I have far better feelings than I did when Allardice was appointed. The positives I think are: - he is intelligent and articulate and will not get carried away or show off in front of the press as Allardice was doing. The story will always be what England are doing not himself. He will not make the Rooney comments that Allardice did which became the story rather than the football. - he seems to have a good attitude, players like him and whilst that is not vital it will make it easier to manage difficult situations. - he comes across as a thinker, a reflective decision maker who will be do things for the right reasons. He is a man without too many skeletons which can be used against him. He will not be caught in a newspaper-sting. His feet appear to be firmly on the ground. - I wonder if, having slipped under the radar and not one who courts the press, he is similar to Joachim Low, the German manager. If so that would be a good thing. - finally, if he remains in charge and we ever have the need for a penalty shoot-out, he of all people, will know what to do! I've liked what I've heard so far but then talk is cheap and it's actions that speak the loudest. We will know a lot more after his first game, but given that it's against Malta, probably not too much more!
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Post by e4bandrobinstubbs on Oct 7, 2016 12:06:31 GMT
I think we HAVE got good England players, and most of them are pretty young. Unfortunately they lack the killer instinct as a team because England managers for years have not instilled enough determination in them. When you add in the influence / priorities of the Prem League and Champions League, playing against the likes of Malta and Iceland probably aren't exactly high on the players' "must do" list. Against the types of teams like Iceland, the likes of Germany and Italy don't mess around-they win, not the least because of their professional pride and determination. Additionally England Managers and players have severely let down us fans. What's the solution ? A manager who gets in and kicks ass where needed for a start (take note Harry Kane, for example).
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Oct 7, 2016 12:09:06 GMT
I think we HAVE got good England players, and most of them are pretty young. Unfortunately they lack the killer instinct as a team because England managers for years have not instilled enough determination in them. When you add in the influence / priorities of the Prem League and Champions League, playing against the likes of Malta and Iceland probably aren't exactly high on the players' "must do" list. Against the types of teams like Iceland, the likes of Germany and Italy don't mess around-they win, not the least because of their professional pride and determination. Additionally England Managers and players have severely let down us fans. What's the solution ? A manager who gets in and kicks ass where needed for a start (take note Harry Kane, for example). Darrell Clarke.
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Post by RD on Oct 7, 2016 12:23:57 GMT
The problem for me is that all truly GREAT managers have charisma (amongst tactial nous etc).
Gareth Southgate has the charisma of a crayon.
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Post by wrongsideoftheriver on Oct 7, 2016 14:06:36 GMT
We missed our chance to win anything 6-8 years ago during our 'golden era' the players we have now simply aren't good enough.
No real characters in the squad (gaza) No leaders Don't know our best team! All we have is some exciting prospects who none to date have full filled there potential.
The lads don't enjoy being away at competitions
Rubbish and I mean scrapping the barrel managerial appointments! Cappello was the last manager who had a good CV but was well past his best years.
I've given up watching after our shower of sh**e showing at the euros.. rant over
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Post by youmadethatup on Oct 7, 2016 15:04:02 GMT
All GS needs to do is build a squad of players that do as he wants. Start from scratch forget reputations ,forget the clubs they play for and pick players with the right attitude who will fit in and work as a team. Do not pick individuals who fans reckon are the best in that position a team of individual stars will achieve nothing. Ignore ages ,pick players young and old and all in between. Do that and he might achieve something.
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