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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 11:36:28 GMT
So, the High Court this morning ruled that Teresa May cannot invoke Article 50 without a vote in the House. As we all know, the majority of MP's are Remainers. Do the lawyers and politicians really think they are above the wishes of the people? Don't these cockwombles realise, that by their actions they are giving support to 'other' political parties? I should imagine this decision will add another couple of million votes to UKIP. Nigel Farage must come back as UKIP Leader because he still has a job to do.
Watch this from Question Time last week........"what part of democracy don't you understand...."
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Post by wiaww on Nov 3, 2016 12:19:11 GMT
Slightly off-topic but perhaps someone will humour me: if the Leave camp are so convinced that the majority of the UK's electorate are pro-Brexit why the terrible fear of a second referendum?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 12:37:20 GMT
Slightly off-topic but perhaps someone will humour me: if the Leave camp are so convinced that the majority of the UK's electorate are pro-Brexit why the terrible fear of a second referendum? and if that second referendum produces a 'remain' vote, do we have a third referendum? Is it a 'best of three' competition? After the next General Election, do we have another General Election just in case people have changed their minds? Parliament voted by 6-1 to hold a Referendum thinking that they would win. They lost, so they should either deal with it, or get out !
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Post by wiaww on Nov 3, 2016 12:44:06 GMT
Slightly off-topic but perhaps someone will humour me: if the Leave camp are so convinced that the majority of the UK's electorate are pro-Brexit why the terrible fear of a second referendum? and if that second referendum produces a 'remain' vote, do we have a third referendum? Is it a 'best of three' competition? After the next General Election, do we have another General Election just in case people have changed their minds? Parliament voted by 6-1 to hold a Referendum thinking that they would win. They lost, so they should either deal with it, or get out ! I'd be happy with them getting out. And I imagine it's quite likely we'll see an early GE in the wake of today's ruling. I understand what you're saying, I think that a second referendum opens up a huge can of worms, but if the majority of the electorate favour leaving the EU then it wouldn't produce a remain vote - unless of course you're suggesting that the referendum process is flawed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 13:03:30 GMT
and if that second referendum produces a 'remain' vote, do we have a third referendum? Is it a 'best of three' competition? After the next General Election, do we have another General Election just in case people have changed their minds? Parliament voted by 6-1 to hold a Referendum thinking that they would win. They lost, so they should either deal with it, or get out ! I'd be happy with them getting out. And I imagine it's quite likely we'll see an early GE in the wake of today's ruling. I understand what you're saying, I think that a second referendum opens up a huge can of worms, but if the majority of the electorate favour leaving the EU then it wouldn't produce a remain vote - unless of course you're suggesting that the referendum process is flawed. I think a second referendum will produce an even bigger 'leave' majority. Project Fear ran by Cameron & Co has been shown to be nonsense, so what on earth will be the argument that the Remain people could use? An early GE won't happen because of the new Fixed Term law. But a GE before Article 50 is declared will just be another debate on Brexit! I'm going to give my pitchfork a polish, and find the piano wire I've got in a drawer somewhere.
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Post by aghast on Nov 3, 2016 15:31:06 GMT
I warned you all before the referendum that this kind of thing would happen. You naive fools!!! Actually I don't agree with tactics like this at all. I didn't like the referendum result, but a democratic vote decided on Brexit, and that is that, for good or bad, better or worse, richer or poorer etc etc.
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Post by althepirate on Nov 4, 2016 0:22:43 GMT
If there is a second referendum can we play the Peterborough game again?
If there is a second referendum I hope there is anarchy, because they wont listen to democracy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 7:43:44 GMT
If there is a second referendum can we play the Peterborough game again? If there is a second referendum I hope there is anarchy, because they wont listen to democracy. I hear Accrington are demanding that the last league games of last season be replayed, because after all, it was pretty close all round, and if the games are replayed, the next time they may win !
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Post by Russgas on Nov 4, 2016 8:16:21 GMT
If this happened in France or Italy the people would take to the streets and protest. But what will we do,just sit back and take it like we always do.
The lies,underhand dealings and corruption that goes on in politics never ceases to amaze me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 9:08:30 GMT
If this happened in France or Italy the people would take to the streets and protest. But what will we do,just sit back and take it like we always do. The lies,underhand dealings and corruption that goes on in politics never ceases to amaze me. I'm a pretty easy going sort really. I've never been on a protest march in my life.................however, now I'm quite prepared to be in the frontline outside Parliament with my piano wire if these barstewards don't deliver. Spoken in 1653, and pretty much would still apply today........ "Oliver Cromwell - Dissolution of the Long Parliament 1653 Dissolution of the Long Parliament by Oliver Cromwell given to the House of Commons, 20 April 1653. Speech It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money. Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth? Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go! Oliver Cromwell - April 20, 1653"
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Post by William Wilson on Nov 4, 2016 9:34:52 GMT
I reckon, in a hundred years time when people look back on this period of our history, they`ll shake their heads in disbelief, that anybody thought that they could make this whole barmy project work.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Nov 4, 2016 9:54:23 GMT
Not sure why everyone is getting so hysterical and throwing their toys out the pram. The whole point of voting for Brexit (except for the idiots who thought they were getting rid of foreigners or having more money for the NHS) was to make Parliament the supreme body in the UK. That is what people were voting for, that Parliament gets to make the decisions. Now Parliament gets to make the decision. That's the point. The judges were very clear that they weren't ruling on any element of Brexit, just the principle that Parliament must ratify it. That's all. But of course, too many people would rather have a mad rant at the oppressive powers of the Remainers, or something, than actually follow the rule of law. All pretty unedifying.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 10:25:20 GMT
I disagree. Parliament have had their vote. They voted by 6 to 1 to hold the Referendum, fully expecting to win the vote. They lost. Parliament is not the supreme body in the UK. That right belongs to the people.
"The whole point of voting for Brexit was to make Parliament the supreme body in the UK. That is what people were voting for," - Again I disagree. People were voting to leave the EU. That is what it said on the ballot paper.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Nov 4, 2016 12:05:21 GMT
I disagree. Parliament have had their vote. They voted by 6 to 1 to hold the Referendum, fully expecting to win the vote. They lost. Parliament is not the supreme body in the UK. That right belongs to the people. "The whole point of voting for Brexit was to make Parliament the supreme body in the UK. That is what people were voting for," - Again I disagree. People were voting to leave the EU. That is what it said on the ballot paper. Except you're just a bloke on the internet disagreeing with high court judges over a point of law. Get some perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 12:09:09 GMT
I disagree. Parliament have had their vote. They voted by 6 to 1 to hold the Referendum, fully expecting to win the vote. They lost. Parliament is not the supreme body in the UK. That right belongs to the people. "The whole point of voting for Brexit was to make Parliament the supreme body in the UK. That is what people were voting for," - Again I disagree. People were voting to leave the EU. That is what it said on the ballot paper. Except you're just a bloke on the internet disagreeing with high court judges over a point of law. Get some perspective. You are of course correct. What on earth am I, or anyone else doing, questioning the deeds and actions of our superiors. Maybe you're just a bloke on the internet who has trouble putting together your point of view, so you resort to having a pop at the other person?
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Nov 4, 2016 12:15:54 GMT
Except you're just a bloke on the internet disagreeing with high court judges over a point of law. Get some perspective. You are of course correct. What on earth am I, or anyone else doing, questioning the deeds and actions of our superiors. Maybe you're just a bloke on the internet who has trouble putting together your point of view, so you resort to having a pop at the other person? So, you're having a pop at me to say I'm having a pop at you. It's like words are just things for you to type. You can question judges if you want, but it's like you don't seem to realise they've been studying law all their lives and actually know what they're doing, whereas you're just whining about a decision you don't like. That's what I meant by getting some perspective. Feel free to whine all you like, but it doesn't make your knowledge of the law any better, does it? Or are you just gonna whine about me having a pop at you again, for pointing out you're not a high court judge?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 12:29:00 GMT
You are of course correct. What on earth am I, or anyone else doing, questioning the deeds and actions of our superiors. Maybe you're just a bloke on the internet who has trouble putting together your point of view, so you resort to having a pop at the other person? So, you're having a pop at me to say I'm having a pop at you. It's like words are just things for you to type. You can question judges if you want, but it's like you don't seem to realise they've been studying law all their lives and actually know what they're doing, whereas you're just whining about a decision you don't like. That's what I meant by getting some perspective. Feel free to whine all you like, but it doesn't make your knowledge of the law any better, does it? Or are you just gonna whine about me having a pop at you again, for pointing out you're not a high court judge? Tis true, words are just things for me to type on an internet forum - I'm just an old duffer and I don't know of any other way of writing on here. Perhaps you can advise? No, I am not a High Court judge, but it doesn't mean to say I have to agree/accept every ruling they make. I'm not a politician either, but I don't have to agree/accept every decision they make. Nor am I an professional football referee, but I don't have agree/accept every decisio.................... So, we have ascertained that indeed, I am not a High Court judge. I am also not a politician, nor a lawyer, nor a ........... Does this mean that I have to sit back and accept every judgement these people make? I suppose some people are just followers, while others question and hold to account, those who think they are morally and intellectually superior.
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Nov 4, 2016 12:32:48 GMT
So, you're having a pop at me to say I'm having a pop at you. It's like words are just things for you to type. You can question judges if you want, but it's like you don't seem to realise they've been studying law all their lives and actually know what they're doing, whereas you're just whining about a decision you don't like. That's what I meant by getting some perspective. Feel free to whine all you like, but it doesn't make your knowledge of the law any better, does it? Or are you just gonna whine about me having a pop at you again, for pointing out you're not a high court judge? Tis true, words are just things for me to type on an internet forum - I'm just an old duffer and I don't know of any other way of writing on here. Perhaps you can advise? No, I am not a High Court judge, but it doesn't mean to say I have to agree/accept every ruling they make. I'm not a politician either, but I don't have to agree/accept every decision they make. Nor am I an professional football referee, but I don't have agree/accept every decisio.................... So, we have ascertained that indeed, I am not a High Court judge. I am also not a politician, nor a lawyer, nor a ........... Does this mean that I have to sit back and accept every judgement these people make? I suppose some people are just followers, while others question and hold to account, those who think they are morally and intellectually superior. You don't have to accept it, but people are allowed to disagree with you, which is what I'm doing. People are allowed to point out you don't actually know what you're talking about, when you don't. You have freedom to say (more or less) what you like, which you're welcome to, but you also have freedom to actually find out about stuff, which you don't seem so keen to utilise.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 12:39:36 GMT
Tis true, words are just things for me to type on an internet forum - I'm just an old duffer and I don't know of any other way of writing on here. Perhaps you can advise? No, I am not a High Court judge, but it doesn't mean to say I have to agree/accept every ruling they make. I'm not a politician either, but I don't have to agree/accept every decision they make. Nor am I an professional football referee, but I don't have agree/accept every decisio.................... So, we have ascertained that indeed, I am not a High Court judge. I am also not a politician, nor a lawyer, nor a ........... Does this mean that I have to sit back and accept every judgement these people make? I suppose some people are just followers, while others question and hold to account, those who think they are morally and intellectually superior. You don't have to accept it, but people are allowed to disagree with you, which is what I'm doing. People are allowed to point out you don't actually know what you're talking about, when you don't. You have freedom to say (more or less) what you like, which you're welcome to, but you also have freedom to actually find out about stuff, which you don't seem so keen to utilise. Jeez, you are right again !!!!! How do you do it? How stupid of me to have an opinion eh? Silly me. You post on a football forum. You offer your opinions on things pertaining to football, but I'd hazard a guess that you've never played professional football in your life. You've probably never built a sports stadium, but does that stop you commenting on the UWE project? What is your problem with me? Why do you constantly follow me around the forum and throw abuse my way? You are a strange person.
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Post by inee on Nov 4, 2016 12:44:03 GMT
Not sure why everyone is getting so hysterical and throwing their toys out the pram. The whole point of voting for Brexit (except for the idiots who thought they were getting rid of foreigners or having more money for the NHS) was to make Parliament the supreme body in the UK. That is what people were voting for, that Parliament gets to make the decisions. Now Parliament gets to make the decision. That's the point. The judges were very clear that they weren't ruling on any element of Brexit, just the principle that Parliament must ratify it. That's all. But of course, too many people would rather have a mad rant at the oppressive powers of the Remainers, or something, than actually follow the rule of law. All pretty unedifying. Surely they are doing just that knowing full well it wont be invoked soon, the people voted ,they voted out therefore the Pm in power at that time should be able to perform the will of the people and invoke article 50. get it done get it done soon. However the judges have now given a ruling that could delay leaving for many years and possibly lead to not leaving at all, and as such is massively anti democratic. Despite whether its a point of law or not it has a massive impact on brexit, more importantly it just shows that in the main people have no power or rights as long as we have overpaid rich people in positions to overrule democratic votes
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