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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jul 21, 2017 9:14:06 GMT
I should add, I don't support Hamas or its methods but I do have an awful lot of sympathy for Palestine. They were royally f**ked over by the creation of Israel. We created Israel. I love Israel and the people. I used to work in Israel and Gaza/West Bank - Very complicated region and I get what both sides say but side with Israel. |
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Post by LJG on Jul 21, 2017 9:31:00 GMT
I know you didn't raise the initial point but I find it very difficult to bring any comparison between a nation state recognised by the UN and a terrorist group listed as such by the UN. I'm not sure recognition by the UN makes the situation any more right. I think, not only recognition by but membership of, the UN is quite significantly different to a group like Hamas. I understand it's a complicated issue that we probably can't properly debate in a sensible way on here but I think that's an important point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 16:07:42 GMT
Eradicating historic student debt was never promised, getting rid of tuition fees was. Which leads me to... It's hardly surprising the Welsh Govt would do something stupid like increase fees according to inflation when they distanced themselves from a manifesto that got 40% of the vote. Their decision simply increases the amount the taxpayer pays in the long term. That's part of the problem with the £9000+ tuition fee argument, everyone pays more. Welsh Labour's election support for the Westminster branch of the Party came as follows... Bullshit. Jeremy Corbyn, 1 June 2017: "We’ll do it as soon as we get in, and we’ll then introduce legislation to ensure that any student going from the 2017-18 academic year will not pay fees. They will pay them, but we’ll rebate them when we’ve got the legislation through ... ... I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.” Didn't appear as party policy so its not a pledge. Pretty simple. Nobody voted on it, unlike tuition fees in 2010 and 2017. If they'd said tuition fee scrapping - which appeared in the Manifesto and as Party policy - wasn't achievable then I'd agree with you. You've missed out about 4 or 5 qualifying sentences in that interview too by the way which devalue the commitment to it, in case you use the amended quote elsewhere. Tuition fees as they are will be scrapped soon, probably restored to previous levels. It's a shitshow, which means both the individual who goes and the taxpayer who doesn't go pay billions more money to institutions and universities than they did before. |
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Post by LJG on Jul 21, 2017 17:32:50 GMT
Bullshit. Jeremy Corbyn, 1 June 2017: "We’ll do it as soon as we get in, and we’ll then introduce legislation to ensure that any student going from the 2017-18 academic year will not pay fees. They will pay them, but we’ll rebate them when we’ve got the legislation through ... ... I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.” Didn't appear as party policy so its not a pledge. Pretty simple. Nobody voted on it, unlike tuition fees in 2010 and 2017. If they'd said tuition fee scrapping - which appeared in the Manifesto and as Party policy - wasn't achievable then I'd agree with you. You've missed out about 4 or 5 qualifying sentences in that interview too by the way which devalue the commitment to it, in case you use the amended quote elsewhere. Tuition fees as they are will be scrapped soon, probably restored to previous levels. It's a shitshow, which means both the individual who goes and the taxpayer who doesn't go pay billions more money to institutions and universities than they did before. Total cop out. Corbyn did that interview on the day the manifesto was launched. He talks in, unqualified, positive language about his intention on the point. Whether or not it was in the manifesto or not is irrelevant. It was an unabated statement used to entice people to vote for the Labour party which they now admit is a load of sh**. (I haven't edited anything out of that at all by the way - that is typical Labour obfuscation tactics to pretend that your interlocutor is somehow being disingenuous when they quote you. Emily Thornberry's first call; just repeat "that's not true, that's not true, that's not true" if you don't like what you're hearing). And on the point of tuition fees in Wales - I've quoted Welsh Labour's manifesto above. If you can show me where they say "You have to be prepared for the fact that if tuition fees increase in England we'll put them up in Wales too" then I'll accept they're not lying sacks of sh**e. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 21:07:37 GMT
I should add, I don't support Hamas or its methods but I do have an awful lot of sympathy for Palestine. They were royally f**ked over by the creation of Israel. We created Israel. I love Israel and the people. I used to work in Israel and Gaza/West Bank - Very complicated region and I get what both sides say but side with Israel. Who created Iraq and who betrayed the Kurds? What did happen to Mesopotamia? Where is Lord Balfour? |
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jul 21, 2017 22:17:16 GMT
We created Israel. I love Israel and the people. I used to work in Israel and Gaza/West Bank - Very complicated region and I get what both sides say but side with Israel. Who created Iraq and who betrayed the Kurds? What did happen to Mesopotamia? Where is Lord Balfour? Who created lord voldemort ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 8:40:10 GMT
We created Israel. I love Israel and the people. I used to work in Israel and Gaza/West Bank - Very complicated region and I get what both sides say but side with Israel. Who created Iraq and who betrayed the Kurds? What did happen to Mesopotamia? Where is Lord Balfour? Les, that is just pure nonsense and you know it........what happened to Prussia? History is history. What has happened has happened. Nobody can change history, but we can help develop the future. |
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 22, 2017 9:27:51 GMT
Who created Iraq and who betrayed the Kurds? What did happen to Mesopotamia? Where is Lord Balfour? Les, that is just pure nonsense and you know it........what happened to Prussia? History is history. What has happened has happened. Nobody can change history, but we can help develop the future. But only by learning from history. |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 22, 2017 19:28:39 GMT
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Post by pirate on Jul 22, 2017 20:03:52 GMT
Surely Israel is an invading/occupying force in someone else's country. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I know you didn't raise the initial point but I find it very difficult to bring any comparison between a nation state recognised by the UN and a terrorist group listed as such by the UN.  |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 22, 2017 20:20:30 GMT
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Post by LJG on Jul 22, 2017 22:56:04 GMT
Sh1t, I've just remembered why Wes disappeared the first time round.
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jul 22, 2017 23:44:37 GMT
Ah somebody that quotes others - My opinions are based on my experiences so I dont think we have anything else to discuss until you have been there and spent time in Israel and Gaza and then know what you are talking about - Shalom |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 1:45:41 GMT
Ah somebody that quotes others - My opinions are based on my experiences so I dont think we have anything else to discuss until you have been there and spent time in Israel and Gaza and then know what you are talking about - Shalom So if you spend time in a country your opinion is correct and people who havnt lived there is wrong? Wow i never got that before |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 1:54:16 GMT
I will never understand how reasonably intelligent people can just accept a system where a tiny minority of people own virtually half the wealth in the world?
The walton family that own wal-mart have a combined wealth equal to the lowest 40% of the american population!
And similar statistics apply in this country but people just go along with it?
Wal-marts employees in the us are paid so badly they need food stamps and medical insurance aid paid for by the state while the family creams in the billions and its the same story here in the uk.
We have the power to change it but so far we havnt we just passively accept the rich getting ever richer.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Jul 23, 2017 5:52:21 GMT
Ah somebody that quotes others - My opinions are based on my experiences so I dont think we have anything else to discuss until you have been there and spent time in Israel and Gaza and then know what you are talking about - Shalom Do you think your view would be different if you'd lived in Palestine instead of Israel? What are your views on North Korea? |
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jul 23, 2017 8:30:54 GMT
Ah somebody that quotes others - My opinions are based on my experiences so I dont think we have anything else to discuss until you have been there and spent time in Israel and Gaza and then know what you are talking about - Shalom So if you spend time in a country your opinion is correct and people who havnt lived there is wrong? Wow i never got that before No, I did not say that. It annoys me when people cut and paste articles from suspect sources to try and make a point. Bit like quoting keith chimp. We can all find content on line but the reality is often very different. |
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Post by Midsomer Murderer on Jul 23, 2017 8:40:20 GMT
Ah somebody that quotes others - My opinions are based on my experiences so I dont think we have anything else to discuss until you have been there and spent time in Israel and Gaza and then know what you are talking about - Shalom Do you think your view would be different if you'd lived in Palestine instead of Israel? What are your views on North Korea? I did Hugo - I spent a lot of time in Gaza and the west bank. Have friends there. My views on North Korea ? Well it appears to be a cruel dictatorship that spends the majority of its resource on arms and the elite whilst the people are starving and live in fear. I expect the people are fed all sorts of lies about the west and are scared. But I dont honestly know. I have only read and heard articles on it and I dont know any North Koreans. |
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Post by William Wilson on Jul 23, 2017 10:06:13 GMT
Do you think your view would be different if you'd lived in Palestine instead of Israel? What are your views on North Korea? I did Hugo - I spent a lot of time in Gaza and the west bank. Have friends there. My views on North Korea ? Well it appears to be a cruel dictatorship that spends the majority of its resource on arms and the elite whilst the people are starving and live in fear. I expect the people are fed all sorts of lies about the west and are scared. But I dont honestly know. I have only read and heard articles on it and I dont know any North Koreans. There`s Chick Corea. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_CoreaDon`t think he was ever a member of the Stern Gang. He looks quite jolly to me. |
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Post by William Wilson on Jul 23, 2017 10:24:52 GMT
I will never understand how reasonably intelligent people can just accept a system where a tiny minority of people own virtually half the wealth in the world? The walton family that own wal-mart have a combined wealth equal to the lowest 40% of the american population! And similar statistics apply in this country but people just go along with it? Wal-marts employees in the us are paid so badly they need food stamps and medical insurance aid paid for by the state while the family creams in the billions and its the same story here in the uk. We have the power to change it but so far we havnt we just passively accept the rich getting ever richer. Good luck with that. I well remember the latter years of the 1970s, the last time the lunatic left had their mitts on the levers of power in this country. The rich carried on getting richer, they just f**ked off abroad to do it. So they didn`t pay ANY taxes here. I myself spent four years working in Germany; the alternative was to stay here and be told by the likes of Derek Robinson, when I could or couldn`t work. And Corbyn`s even loonier than they were. Vote for him, BB, and you`re putting a big fat spoke in your grandchildrens`chances of having as good a life as you did. |
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