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Post by Windmill Hill Gas on Mar 9, 2020 16:05:50 GMT
Not sure the board are too bothered whether we go down or not. Save on wages, chances of having a decent season and good crowds makes financial sense in some eyes. Surely our last 2 stints in the 4th tier would make this a foolish gamble
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:06:07 GMT
A difference in terms of age granted, yet somehow we have still signed a fat lad who was fat two years ago when our HoR was at Coventry. You would think a lesson had been learnt there. Also Abraham doesn’t seem to be cut out for league football, Harries is a liability, there isn’t much there to show that whilst the remit might have changed that the eye for spotting a player has improved too. I’m sure if we put more resources into scouting in light of slimming down the playing budget we could do a lot better for ourselves. Wages....youngsters are a lot cheaper? Does that mean we can’t spot *better* cheaper youngsters?
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Post by axegas on Mar 9, 2020 16:08:04 GMT
I’ve never said till Christmas. I would just like to see him given the summer so that he has an opportunity to get rid of a lot of players that have been garbage under him, bring in players that will suit the style of play he’s looking to implement and have a pre season to get them used to new tactics etc. If we are still sh** after that then yeah I’d obviously want him out. DC was thrown in the deep end with a team of underperforming pro’s and struggled too but Higgs gave him the summer which gave him an opportunity to make drastic changes and the rest is history. DC took charge in the middle of a relegation scrap with 8 games left of the season; of which he won 2 and drew 1 thus earning only one less point than BG has in 15 league games since he took charge with us in a play-off spot. Not even vaguely comparable. Not even close. And what is with this "get rid of players who have been sh*t" rubbish? JCH? Kilgour? Ogogo? Upson? Sercombe? Rodman? All clearly good enough for this level. All good enough to get us into 4th. We already have evidence that they are not the problem. As I previously said in another post I was merely using the comparison to emphasise my point that in summer in football can change things drastically. The team DC had to start the conference with was so much different to the one on the final day. You’ve just zoomed in on the context, picked holes in it and completely missed my point. Regarding your second paragraph. It’s not rubbish and I never mentioned any of those players you conveniently selected. I’d start by moving on Clarke, Leahy, Upson and Reilly to different clubs as they aren’t good enough for a good L1 side, that’s just my opinion.
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Post by RD on Mar 9, 2020 16:10:13 GMT
DC took charge in the middle of a relegation scrap with 8 games left of the season; of which he won 2 and drew 1 thus earning only one less point than BG has in 15 league games since he took charge with us in a play-off spot. Not even vaguely comparable. Not even close. And what is with this "get rid of players who have been sh*t" rubbish? JCH? Kilgour? Ogogo? Upson? Sercombe? Rodman? All clearly good enough for this level. All good enough to get us into 4th. We already have evidence that they are not the problem. As I previously said in another post I was merely using the comparison to emphasise my point that I summer in football can change things drastically. The team DC had to start the conference with was so much different to the one on the final day. You’ve just zoomed in on the context, picked holes in it and completely missed my point. Regarding your second point. It’s not rubbish and I never mentioned any of those players you conveniently selected. I’d start by moving on Clarke, Leahy, Upson and Reilly to different clubs as they aren’t good enough for a good L1 side, that’s just my opinion. The two are completely different though. Even though some turned on DC, the vast majority believed he could turn it round - or at least were willing to give him every opportunity. It would seem over 95% of our fan base want him gone. There is no way back for him. FACT. Just get on with it and get rid of him.
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Post by axegas on Mar 9, 2020 16:13:31 GMT
As I previously said in another post I was merely using the comparison to emphasise my point that I summer in football can change things drastically. The team DC had to start the conference with was so much different to the one on the final day. You’ve just zoomed in on the context, picked holes in it and completely missed my point. Regarding your second point. It’s not rubbish and I never mentioned any of those players you conveniently selected. I’d start by moving on Clarke, Leahy, Upson and Reilly to different clubs as they aren’t good enough for a good L1 side, that’s just my opinion. The two are completely different though. Even though some turned on DC, the vast majority believed he could turn it round - or at least were willing to give him every opportunity. It would seem over 95% of our fan base want him gone. There is no way back for him. FACT. Just get on with it and get rid of him. That’s not a fact, that’s an opinion. And my opinion is different to yours. We’ll leave it at that shall we?
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Post by keygas on Mar 9, 2020 16:13:34 GMT
I will say one thing though, thank f**k we fluked that win against Blackpool. We’d be in even more trouble without it. Sad to say that the demise of Bury meaning only 3 relegation spots & only 44 games instead of 46 this season has probably saved us. Who would ever have thought that after the Ipswich away game earlier in the season , something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:14:57 GMT
As I previously said in another post I was merely using the comparison to emphasise my point that I summer in football can change things drastically. The team DC had to start the conference with was so much different to the one on the final day. You’ve just zoomed in on the context, picked holes in it and completely missed my point. Regarding your second point. It’s not rubbish and I never mentioned any of those players you conveniently selected. I’d start by moving on Clarke, Leahy, Upson and Reilly to different clubs as they aren’t good enough for a good L1 side, that’s just my opinion. The two are completely different though. Even though some turned on DC, the vast majority believed he could turn it round - or at least were willing to give him every opportunity. It would seem over 95% of our fan base want him gone. There is no way back for him. FACT. Just get on with it and get rid of him. DC is and was a manager. Garner is a competition winner. That’s the key difference.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:15:46 GMT
See Sky bet offering 150-1 on Gas relegation. I know I shouldn't but think I might... got to put a £10 on that me thinks Bloody hell, bookies getting nervous would not take £20 bet so had to put on £15
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Post by LJG on Mar 9, 2020 16:30:27 GMT
DC took charge in the middle of a relegation scrap with 8 games left of the season; of which he won 2 and drew 1 thus earning only one less point than BG has in 15 league games since he took charge with us in a play-off spot. Not even vaguely comparable. Not even close. And what is with this "get rid of players who have been sh*t" rubbish? JCH? Kilgour? Ogogo? Upson? Sercombe? Rodman? All clearly good enough for this level. All good enough to get us into 4th. We already have evidence that they are not the problem. As I previously said in another post I was merely using the comparison to emphasise my point that in summer in football can change things drastically. The team DC had to start the conference with was so much different to the one on the final day. You’ve just zoomed in on the context, picked holes in it and completely missed my point. Regarding your second paragraph. It’s not rubbish and I never mentioned any of those players you conveniently selected. I’d start by moving on Clarke, Leahy, Upson and Reilly to different clubs as they aren’t good enough for a good L1 side, that’s just my opinion. I responded to the point you made. DC took charge of a failing team. BG took charge of a winning team. So the elements are opposite. It's evident that he is the reason the losing has started. With DC the losing was already established and he achieved a 25% win rate. When BG came in winning was the norm but he has achieved a 6% win rate. So it's obviously wrong to say let's give BG the chance DC got. One did about the same with what his predecessor left him and one has done markedly worse. It's also obviously wrong to blame BG's failings on Reilly. Can't believe I actually have to point that out.
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Post by axegas on Mar 9, 2020 16:33:58 GMT
As I previously said in another post I was merely using the comparison to emphasise my point that in summer in football can change things drastically. The team DC had to start the conference with was so much different to the one on the final day. You’ve just zoomed in on the context, picked holes in it and completely missed my point. Regarding your second paragraph. It’s not rubbish and I never mentioned any of those players you conveniently selected. I’d start by moving on Clarke, Leahy, Upson and Reilly to different clubs as they aren’t good enough for a good L1 side, that’s just my opinion. I responded to the point you made. DC took charge of a failing team. BG took charge of a winning team. So the elements are opposite. It's evident that he is the reason the losing has started. With DC the losing was already established and he achieved a 25% win rate. When BG came in winning was the norm but he has achieved a 6% win rate. So it's obviously wrong to say let's give BG the chance DC got. One did about the same with what his predecessor left him and one has done markedly worse. It's also obviously wrong to blame BG's failings on Reilly. Can't believe I actually have to point that out. It’s not obviously wrong but that’s just my opinion. Where did I blame anything on Reilly? I know he’s been injured. I just said he’s one of the players that I would look to move on the summer along with the likes of Clarke, Leahy and Upson who through their own failings have contributed to the poor recent form.
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Post by darkbluegas on Mar 9, 2020 16:36:50 GMT
Not sure the board are too bothered whether we go down or not. Save on wages, chances of having a decent season and good crowds makes financial sense in some eyes. Surely our last 2 stints in the 4th tier would make this a foolish gamble Who knows, last time we had some great crowds with cheap players
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Post by LJG on Mar 9, 2020 16:40:39 GMT
I responded to the point you made. DC took charge of a failing team. BG took charge of a winning team. So the elements are opposite. It's evident that he is the reason the losing has started. With DC the losing was already established and he achieved a 25% win rate. When BG came in winning was the norm but he has achieved a 6% win rate. So it's obviously wrong to say let's give BG the chance DC got. One did about the same with what his predecessor left him and one has done markedly worse. It's also obviously wrong to blame BG's failings on Reilly. Can't believe I actually have to point that out. It’s not obviously wrong but that’s just my opinion. Where did I blame anything on Reilly? I know he’s been injured. I just said he’s one of the players that I would look to move on the summer along with the likes of Clarke, Leahy and Upson who through their own failings have contributed to the poor recent form. It really is obviously wrong. Both statistically and objectively. In relation to the players you name - what were they contributing to before GC left?
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Mar 9, 2020 16:42:10 GMT
DC was over a much shorter period at the end of his season and I genuinely believed him, even then. In fact the interview he gave after relegation was the best and most inspiring interview I have ever heard from a Rovers manager. BG I just can't buy into at all, there may be a place for him in football but I don't believe he is a football manager. PR doesn’t win football matches ultimately, Garners not very good at it though you’re right. I was just trying to illustrate the effects that a summer can have on the footballing prospects of a squad of players. It wasn't about the PR for me. It was about having a determination and fire to put it right. I don't think BG has it in him, it comes across so weak.
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Marshy
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Post by Marshy on Mar 9, 2020 16:45:47 GMT
PR doesn’t win football matches ultimately, Garners not very good at it though you’re right. I was just trying to illustrate the effects that a summer can have on the footballing prospects of a squad of players. It wasn't about the PR for me. It was about having a determination and fire to put it right. I don't think BG has it in him, it comes across so weak. Cos he’s a lettuce.
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Post by axegas on Mar 9, 2020 16:48:40 GMT
It’s not obviously wrong but that’s just my opinion. Where did I blame anything on Reilly? I know he’s been injured. I just said he’s one of the players that I would look to move on the summer along with the likes of Clarke, Leahy and Upson who through their own failings have contributed to the poor recent form. It really is obviously wrong. Both statistically and objectively. In relation to the players you name - what were they contributing to before GC left? I didn’t rate Leahy before Garner, I still don’t rate him now. He’s an average L2 wingback and a poor fullback. Ollie Clarke has had a shocker of a season and we were better under Coughlan when he was left out injured. Upson has been poorer since Garner has come in granted but ultimately he is responsible for his own performances and they haven’t been good enough. All three aren’t good enough to be starting in a team that wants to challenge in this division. That includes Reilly too but of course our form recently can’t be attributed to him. I’m not particularly pro Garner, I think he’s done a poor job so far. I just think now we’ve committed to him half way through the season, the right thing to do would be to give him the summer because a fresh start and radical transformation of personnel could be the catalyst to greater things.
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Post by onedaygas83 on Mar 9, 2020 16:50:58 GMT
I will say one thing though, thank f**k we fluked that win against Blackpool. We’d be in even more trouble without it. Sad to say that the demise of Bury meaning only 3 relegation spots & only 44 games instead of 46 this season has probably saved us. Who would ever have thought that after the Ipswich away game earlier in the season , something has gone seriously wrong somewhere. you've hit the nail on the head my son! Lucky boys we are this season if we stay up as its normally 52 points to stay up give or take.
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Post by axegas on Mar 9, 2020 16:52:24 GMT
PR doesn’t win football matches ultimately, Garners not very good at it though you’re right. I was just trying to illustrate the effects that a summer can have on the footballing prospects of a squad of players. It wasn't about the PR for me. It was about having a determination and fire to put it right. I don't think BG has it in him, it comes across so weak. Being calm, cool and calculated instead of emotional and outwardly determined doesn’t have to be a bad thing.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Mar 9, 2020 17:06:54 GMT
It wasn't about the PR for me. It was about having a determination and fire to put it right. I don't think BG has it in him, it comes across so weak. Being calm, cool and calculated instead of emotional and outwardly determined doesn’t have to be a bad thing. But you can be cool, calm an calculated without being weak. Put them in the mix together and it doesn't make for a good end result.
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Post by axegas on Mar 9, 2020 17:08:59 GMT
Being calm, cool and calculated instead of emotional and outwardly determined doesn’t have to be a bad thing. But you can be cool, calm an calculated without being weak. Put them in the mix together and it doesn't make for a good end result. Weak is subjective though. I don’t think Garner has dealt with adversity very well in his interviews but I wouldn’t call him weak. I think that’s just people putting 2 and 2 together and making 5. In fact I’d say he’s shown he can be strong by going through a family crisis and coming back to work so soon.
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Post by LJG on Mar 9, 2020 17:11:19 GMT
It really is obviously wrong. Both statistically and objectively. In relation to the players you name - what were they contributing to before GC left? I didn’t rate Leahy before Garner, I still don’t rate him now. He’s an average L2 wingback and a poor fullback. Ollie Clarke has had a shocker of a season and we were better under Coughlan when he was left out injured. Upson has been poorer since Garner has come in granted but ultimately he is responsible for his own performances and they haven’t been good enough. All three aren’t good enough to be starting in a team that wants to challenge in this division. That includes Reilly too but of course our form recently can’t be attributed to him. I’m not particularly pro Garner, I think he’s done a poor job so far. I just think now we’ve committed to him half way through the season, the right thing to do would be to give him the summer because a fresh start and radical transformation of personnel could be the catalyst to greater things. But all three are good enough to be starting in a team challenging in this division. Ask me how I know.
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