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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 18:20:51 GMT
Starting in a team challenging at the end of the season. In fact I would say that their recent form only furthers my point as it’s shown them to be inconsistent and unable to step up when the going gets tough. Clarke didn’t start too much in the first part of the season anyway as he was injured then out of favour a bit. Midfield has been an issue since Lines lost his way, so why sign Barrett and not the decent central midfielder we clearly needed in January? Did we really need 2 x wingers, 1 X CB, and 2 x inexperienced strikers, or 1 or 2 decent CM's? Weren’t we trying to sign the West Ham lad (Powell) but he chose Burton instead?
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Post by Topper Gas on Mar 9, 2020 18:25:50 GMT
4 goals in 3 seasons. Can't get a game in League 2. No it doesn't. So there’s no logic to it then. You just adopt the argument when it suits. You don’t like Nichols so you claim that it doesn’t apply to him. Yet you claim it applies to Upson, Leahy and Clarke even though in the second half of the season all three have been exceptionally poor and shown exactly why they aren’t good enough to play for a team challenging in the top half of league one. Ok then. If they aren't good enough then how did they manage to do it under GC, when he departed we only had to beat Wimbledon at home to go 2nd in the league, and we were still in the FA Cup plus had a very winnable looking home game v Stevenage in the EFL Trophy, our demise under BG is incredible. Plus it was no fluke under GC as we'd been consistently one of the league best performers over 46 games. Surely those players would have responded to BG saying just keep playing the same but we also want to play a bit more football from the back, instead of completely changing the way we approach games.
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Post by LJG on Mar 9, 2020 19:29:17 GMT
4 goals in 3 seasons. Can't get a game in League 2. No it doesn't. So there’s no logic to it then. You just adopt the argument when it suits. You don’t like Nichols so you claim that it doesn’t apply to him. Yet you claim it applies to Upson, Leahy and Clarke even though in the second half of the season all three have been exceptionally poor and shown exactly why they aren’t good enough to play for a team challenging in the top half of league one. Ok then. Well if there's no logic in what I'm saying there's certainly none in what you're saying. You say get rid of dead wood and BG will turn things around. You apparently don't like it when I point out that he has got rid of dead wood (4 goals 3 seasons) and even having done that he's making things worse. So which is it? He should be getting rid of players or not? Make your mind up.
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Post by LJG on Mar 9, 2020 19:30:39 GMT
So there’s no logic to it then. You just adopt the argument when it suits. You don’t like Nichols so you claim that it doesn’t apply to him. Yet you claim it applies to Upson, Leahy and Clarke even though in the second half of the season all three have been exceptionally poor and shown exactly why they aren’t good enough to play for a team challenging in the top half of league one. Ok then. Yep, Upson and co will be rated on points accrued, Nichols will be rated on goals scored. (4) Goals scored over the course of three poor seasons.
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Post by Jomo on Mar 9, 2020 19:34:55 GMT
3 weeks ago I thought relegation was nigh on impossible and I quietly chuckled at those that thought it could happen. Now, I actually am genuinely concerned that it is a real possibility.
We are without a shadow of a doubt, the worst team in the division now, and we have to be extremely thankful to GC for giving us a fighting chance of staying up.
If someone had told me just before Christmas that I'd be typing this post now in early March, I'd have laughed them off. That is a barometer for how disastrous BG's reign has been so far. It's probably as bad if not worse than McGhee and Graydon at the depth of their non-powers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 19:38:53 GMT
Yep, Upson and co will be rated on points accrued, Nichols will be rated on goals scored. (4) Goals scored over the course of three poor seasons. Fair enough, we were also battling relegation with the likes of Upson in the side a season ago, who gets the blame for that if you know that Upson is actually a bloody good player? There are so many variables at play that you can’t simply paint in brush strokes and let some players off and not others. Nichols might not be playing for Cheltenham and have an awful goal record, but he was an ever present for the team that got into 4th, if you can praise Upson for that then you have to credit Nichols too, not least because JCH looks a shadow of the player without Nichols in the team. Correlation = causation? I’m not buying that.
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Post by Windmill Hill Gas on Mar 9, 2020 19:41:58 GMT
Surely our last 2 stints in the 4th tier would make this a foolish gamble Who knows, last time we had some great crowds with cheap players Sorry I meant the last 2 times we were relegated to 4th tier, not when we were promoted to it under DC. That was different as we had momentum
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Post by LJG on Mar 9, 2020 19:42:15 GMT
(4) Goals scored over the course of three poor seasons. Fair enough, we were also battling relegation with the likes of Upson in the side a season ago, who gets the blame for that if you know that Upson is actually a bloody good player? There are so many variables at play that you can’t simply paint in brush strokes and let some players off and not others. Nichols might not be playing for Cheltenham and have an awful goal record, but he was an ever present for the team that got into 4th, if you can praise Upson for that then you have to credit Nichols too, not least because JCH looks a shadow of the player without Nichols in the team. Correlation = causation? I’m not buying that. Well if you don't buy that your comment about JCH is meaningless.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 19:48:50 GMT
Fair enough, we were also battling relegation with the likes of Upson in the side a season ago, who gets the blame for that if you know that Upson is actually a bloody good player? There are so many variables at play that you can’t simply paint in brush strokes and let some players off and not others. Nichols might not be playing for Cheltenham and have an awful goal record, but he was an ever present for the team that got into 4th, if you can praise Upson for that then you have to credit Nichols too, not least because JCH looks a shadow of the player without Nichols in the team. Correlation = causation? I’m not buying that. Well if you don't buy that your comment about JCH is meaningless. Ah, what I meant was, I was anticipating the counter argument of correlation does not equal causation, but I wouldn’t agree with that. As much as I would still not offer Nichols a new contract I can’t help but conclude that playing so many minutes in a team doing well he had to bring something positive to it, something that can’t be measured only by the number of points accrued and also the numbers of those around him (particularly JCH) being better with him in the team vs without him. Admittedly Garner’s arrival coincided with JCH’s return from injury and if anyone could get JCH playing like a dog it’s Garner, but still, I don’t think Nichols playing every week under Coughlan and the team getting to 4th can be easily discounted.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Mar 9, 2020 20:58:55 GMT
Going back to the original thread. Of course relegation is an option whilst it remains mathematically possible. It is also very likely that we are currently the worse team in the league. For that honour the blame lays fairly and squarely with BG and the players performing with such distinction under his leadership and guidance.
In reality we won't go down. Even poor teams pick up the odd few points and that is exactly what we will do. A scrambled home win against a team that isn't too bothered and a couple of dreary draws and BG can bask in the glory of keeping us up. For this season only.
Next season will be different. If the current progress continues, next season will be a car crash and relegation assured by Christmas. I'm just grateful to GC. He's managed to keep us up for two seasons - and one of those seasons he left at the halfway point!
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Post by LJG on Mar 9, 2020 21:01:18 GMT
Well if you don't buy that your comment about JCH is meaningless. Ah, what I meant was, I was anticipating the counter argument of correlation does not equal causation, but I wouldn’t agree with that. As much as I would still not offer Nichols a new contract I can’t help but conclude that playing so many minutes in a team doing well he had to bring something positive to it, something that can’t be measured only by the number of points accrued and also the numbers of those around him (particularly JCH) being better with him in the team vs without him. Admittedly Garner’s arrival coincided with JCH’s return from injury and if anyone could get JCH playing like a dog it’s Garner, but still, I don’t think Nichols playing every week under Coughlan and the team getting to 4th can be easily discounted. Fair enough. I have deep-seated bad feeling towards Nichols. I apportion a significant amount of blame at his door for DC's demise. I'm glad he's gone and I hope we never have to put up with that sort of Emperor's new clothes delusion again. Sadly though that's exactly what we've got with Garner.
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Post by wilmslowgas on Mar 9, 2020 21:18:36 GMT
Emperor's new clothes in respect of TN and BG?
TN had a disastrous spell with us made worse by the big transfer fee and large wages. He will never ever get such a lucrative contract again in his professional football career. It will be interesting to see where he is playing next season. L2 at best.
BG is a different case. His leadership skills are bringing the entire club to its knees at record speed. He will never get another managerial job when he eventually leaves Rovers. The sooner the better for me.
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Post by bluebiro on Mar 9, 2020 21:28:00 GMT
Think he will struggle to get another job in football. His ex managers don't seem to employ him again when they move on to other positions
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Post by lpgas on Mar 9, 2020 21:38:00 GMT
Whether you like it or not. These same players who you call "sh**" managed to get us up to 4th in the league (not to mention the results for the 2nd part last season). Ben Garner was allowed to bring plenty of his own players in Jan, in fact way more than I expected whilst hardly any outgoings. Barrett for example seems like he doesn't look after himself off the pitch yet we rushed to sign him at the start of Jan. Ben Garner is clearly no up to the job, he is so far out of his depth it's unbelieveable. Could anyone on here actually do any worse? No experience, no leadership, no personality, no results, excuses galore. I'm sure he's a nice bloke but football manager he is not. if was a player I would be so embarrassed walking out at the mem tomorrow night but they won’t,spoilt kids they need to take some sh** as well but you are not. Ask yourself why did these players play for GC and not Garner. Anything to do with Garner going from a back 5 to a back 4 and play a good CH at right back? We dont have the players to play a back 4. coughlin knew this and thats why he was successful. Garner jus wants everything his way, and his way has proved to be wrong but he is too arrogant to admit it.
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Post by lpgas on Mar 9, 2020 21:43:36 GMT
There is no excuse for not doing the homework because this was an issue when he was at Coventry. It’s like bloody Garry Kenneth all over again. Taking a punt on unfit and poor professionals thinking we can fix them when, 9 weeks later he still isn’t fit and can’t even make the squad. Fair play Widdrington has come up with one or two top quality signings but there is just as much dross. If we are serious about investing in youth as our main means of existence then we need much better than that. I think Rovers would have known that he was a bit unfit, Widdrington recruited him at Coventry. I’m just guessing that they thought he could get into shape quicker than he has done. It’s extremely disappointing that a professional footballer, that gets paid to play football, is unavailable for selection because he’s too unfit. If was up to me, I would dock some of his wages for every week that he can’t be selected for. Tough but he needs that motivation to get into shape or else he’ll never do it. What we needed in January were players that could come in, make an instant impact and add to what we’ve already got. I think only Blackman and Mitchell-Lawson have done that so far and integral players for us like Davies and JCH have got injured making the situation worse than what it already was. We beat Ipswich away without hose two
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Post by aghast on Mar 9, 2020 21:47:52 GMT
Going back to the original thread. Of course relegation is an option whilst it remains mathematically possible. It is also very likely that we are currently the worse team in the league. For that honour the blame lays fairly and squarely with BG and the players performing with such distinction under his leadership and guidance. In reality we won't go down. Even poor teams pick up the odd few points and that is exactly what we will do. A scrambled home win against a team that isn't too bothered and a couple of dreary draws and BG can bask in the glory of keeping us up. For this season only. Next season will be different. If the current progress continues, next season will be a car crash and relegation assured by Christmas. I'm just grateful to GC. He's managed to keep us up for two seasons - and one of those seasons he left at the halfway point! You are of course right that even the worst teams normally pick up some points in the course of a bad run, but this situation seems a bit out of the ordinary to me. He seems to be immune from a sacking. Which means he won't have the insecurity factor to force him to change his ways or lose his job. He has moved on from blaming himself to blaming the weather, the backroom staff and the last manager. I don't know if his unfortunate personal circumstances have affected his judgement. Perhaps I shouldn't dwell on that. It might be a factor but I wish him well in that regard. Whatever. At one point relegation was virtually impossible, even in the midst of our current bad run. Now, with Tranmere having a game in hand and some winnable fixtures, and ourselves facing some formidable opponents in the next 4 games, we could very well be in the unthinkable mire come early April. So for me relegation really might be possible.
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Post by axegas on Mar 9, 2020 21:48:11 GMT
I think Rovers would have known that he was a bit unfit, Widdrington recruited him at Coventry. I’m just guessing that they thought he could get into shape quicker than he has done. It’s extremely disappointing that a professional footballer, that gets paid to play football, is unavailable for selection because he’s too unfit. If was up to me, I would dock some of his wages for every week that he can’t be selected for. Tough but he needs that motivation to get into shape or else he’ll never do it. What we needed in January were players that could come in, make an instant impact and add to what we’ve already got. I think only Blackman and Mitchell-Lawson have done that so far and integral players for us like Davies and JCH have got injured making the situation worse than what it already was. We beat Ipswich away without hose two So? JCH and Davies are at present two of our best players. We miss them when they are out injured.
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Post by paulpirate on Mar 9, 2020 21:50:10 GMT
if was a player I would be so embarrassed walking out at the mem tomorrow night but they won’t,spoilt kids they need to take some sh** as well but you are not. Ask yourself why did these players play for GC and not Garner. Anything to do with Garner going from a back 5 to a back 4 and play a good CH at right back? We dont have the players to play a back 4. coughlin knew this and thats why he was successful. Garner jus wants everything his way, and his way has proved to be wrong but he is too arrogant to admit it. i know I’m not but I would try a lot harder than those overpaid wankers
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Post by axegas on Mar 9, 2020 21:53:06 GMT
So there’s no logic to it then. You just adopt the argument when it suits. You don’t like Nichols so you claim that it doesn’t apply to him. Yet you claim it applies to Upson, Leahy and Clarke even though in the second half of the season all three have been exceptionally poor and shown exactly why they aren’t good enough to play for a team challenging in the top half of league one. Ok then. Well if there's no logic in what I'm saying there's certainly none in what you're saying. You say get rid of dead wood and BG will turn things around. You apparently don't like it when I point out that he has got rid of dead wood (4 goals 3 seasons) and even having done that he's making things worse. So which is it? He should be getting rid of players or not? Make your mind up. No? I was just pointing out the inconsistency in your argument. I don’t consider Nichols deadwood as apart from score goals, he actually added something to the team in the final third that we’ve missed since.
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Post by lpgas on Mar 9, 2020 21:58:05 GMT
We beat Ipswich away without hose two So? JCH and Davies are at present two of our best players. We miss them when they are out injured. Well it means we used to be able to win games without them. Garner cannot win anything
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