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Post by lastminutewinner on Mar 24, 2021 11:44:27 GMT
Its mad to think some players will have played for us and left, who we will never have seen 'live'
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Post by RD on Mar 24, 2021 11:44:43 GMT
What is it with Rovers fans that the default position is to blame the woes of the world on our own club? It's always "Board out" "Sell up" blah blah blah no matter who is in charge. Been the same for the last 30 years. The bottom line is we've got a mediocre manager who has achieved the square root of f**k all in management. Every time a new one of these shysters blows through the door we all want to turn the club upside down to suit them. If we're going down I'd probably rather have had that fraudulent twat Tisdale in charge. At least he's achieved something down there unlike the new messiah who has done zero of note in football management. Ever. When was the last time Bristol Rovers got into the end of season League One playoffs? 22 years or so ago. So that is one thing Barton has done that no Bristol Rovers manager has managed to achieve in over two decades. Does it matter if you lose them? And does it count given the league was cut short? If it had been cut short the year before, Coughlan would have likely done it.
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Post by RD on Mar 24, 2021 11:45:40 GMT
Its mad to think some players will have played for us and left, who we will never have seen 'live' THANK F**K!!! A small silver lining in an otherwise incredibly gloomy reality.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 24, 2021 11:46:11 GMT
When was the last time Bristol Rovers got into the end of season League One playoffs? 22 years or so ago. So that is one thing Barton has done that no Bristol Rovers manager has managed to achieve in over two decades. Does it matter if you lose them? And does it count given the league was cut short? If it had been cut short the year before, Coughlan would have likely done it. At least he got there, something we haven't achieved for a ridiculously long time.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Mar 24, 2021 11:47:05 GMT
I think that’s fair - to me I think he’s the right man for the job. He is so qualified on paper for a Rovers manager it’s unreal. He has been at the highest level and experienced things as a player too (unlike a certain ex manager) so should know what’s required to get us firing up the league tables. However, if you’re a chef in a kitchen and the ingredients are mouldy, doesn’t matter how talented you are you need a great reset to start afresh. You might need to clear out your fridge, bring in some fresh quality stuff, stop using your frozen produce, and maybe kick a few chefs up the ass or out of the door altogether. It’s all a bit Kitchen Nightmares right now and I can imagine Joey making some idiot sandwiches out of some at the club Ramsay style. Excellent analogy. One bit I will take on is the "he is so qualified on paper for a Rovers manager it’s unreal.". This is where I think people are getting a bit carried away. He was a top player, but that doesn't guarantee he'll be a top manager. Genuine question - would Sol Campbell have been "unreal" in terms of being qualified as a Rovers manager? He's played for England over 70 times and won numerous trophies - he had an even more successful playing career than Barton. Yet he was snubbed by many on here. Okay you can argue it's down to managerial qualities - but again, what has Barton REALLY achieved? He did pretty well at one club. Nothing more, nothing less. Campbell has done a pretty cracking job at each club he's been, all of which were in even worse situations than we find ourselves in now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Barton won't be a great appointment. I'm just trying to understand the ideology around the whole "Barton is unbelievable, how on earth have we acquired him, my god we're punching, he will 100% keep us up" type rhetoric I've heard since his name was first mentioned. I think there is every chance he will do well here, I just don't really understand the complete certainty many posters seem to have. I think that’s fair. First and foremost I did say on paper. It’s not an absolute certainty in my case but for me with his background he’s the kind of manager that gets me excited about what can come. He’s still fairly early on in his managerial career, and had a decent stab at getting Fleetwood promoted even if he didn’t manage to actually achieve that. I was a bit reticent about Sol as I don’t know much about him, but did know he managed Southend through their horrible 19/20 season. I know a lot of that wasn’t his fault, and he’s probably been through a similar situation Tisdale and Barton have here, but I don’t know enough about him other than that. If he’d have been made the Gas manager I’m sure I’d have been getting very excited about what could have came after! I expect some others would sadly discard him because of his race, which is of course a great shame and disappointment that people would put racism before the success of our club. All in all through Joeys our manager, and he’s a manager I can personally get behind (behaviour conditional). For me, I don’t think we can judge any manager who would have been appointed in February too much owing to the sh** show they inherited.
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Post by RD on Mar 24, 2021 11:48:06 GMT
Does it matter if you lose them? And does it count given the league was cut short? If it had been cut short the year before, Coughlan would have likely done it. At least he got there, something we haven't achieved for a ridiculously long time. No, don't get me wrong - it's a fair point for sure. But I just wonder whether that was a one season wonder. That's my worry. Obviously there's not much "data" to look at as his managerial career has been short. But for all we know that may end up being the pinnacle of his managerial career. We have to hope that isn't the case.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Mar 24, 2021 11:49:48 GMT
I think that’s fair - to me I think he’s the right man for the job. He is so qualified on paper.... I'll just stop that there because when you went on to elaborate, I totally agree.....but the qualification on paper bit applied to BG. And even though he's rubbed shoulders with some of the Premier League's most reputable, his qualifications couldn't come near how GC and for that matter DC managed things. I'm still neutral about JAB. I so want it to work, like I did with his predecessors, but until there's evidence one way or another, the principle might be right but the application might not be.....if we get it wrong again, we'll be back in non league. For me, it’s important that a permanent Bristol Rovers managerial appointment has experience of either playing the game, or has proven themselves (even if only for a short while) of managing clubs at the highest level. So whilst BG had coached at that level, I wasn’t convinced by his appointment and it left me with great trepidation. My fears were borne out pretty damn quickly too. So for me there’s a big difference between BG and JB.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Mar 24, 2021 11:51:39 GMT
Its mad to think some players will have played for us and left, who we will never have seen 'live' THANK F**K!!! A small silver lining in an otherwise incredibly gloomy reality. On the flip side, we’re going to lose the opportunity to let them know what we think of their performances in the quarters.
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Post by RD on Mar 24, 2021 11:52:17 GMT
Excellent analogy. One bit I will take on is the "he is so qualified on paper for a Rovers manager it’s unreal.". This is where I think people are getting a bit carried away. He was a top player, but that doesn't guarantee he'll be a top manager. Genuine question - would Sol Campbell have been "unreal" in terms of being qualified as a Rovers manager? He's played for England over 70 times and won numerous trophies - he had an even more successful playing career than Barton. Yet he was snubbed by many on here. Okay you can argue it's down to managerial qualities - but again, what has Barton REALLY achieved? He did pretty well at one club. Nothing more, nothing less. Campbell has done a pretty cracking job at each club he's been, all of which were in even worse situations than we find ourselves in now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Barton won't be a great appointment. I'm just trying to understand the ideology around the whole "Barton is unbelievable, how on earth have we acquired him, my god we're punching, he will 100% keep us up" type rhetoric I've heard since his name was first mentioned. I think there is every chance he will do well here, I just don't really understand the complete certainty many posters seem to have. I think that’s fair. First and foremost I did say on paper. It’s not an absolute certainty in my case but for me with his background he’s the kind of manager that gets me excited about what can come. He’s still fairly early on in his managerial career, and had a decent stab at getting Fleetwood promoted even if he didn’t manage to actually achieve that. I was a bit reticent about Sol as I don’t know much about him, but did know he managed Southend through their horrible 19/20 season. I know a lot of that wasn’t his fault, and he’s probably been through a similar situation Tisdale and Barton have here, but I don’t know enough about him other than that. If he’d have been made the Gas manager I’m sure I’d have been getting very excited about what could have came after! I expect some others would sadly discard him because of his race, which is of course a great shame and disappointment that people would put racism before the success of our club. All in all through Joeys our manager, and he’s a manager I can personally get behind (behaviour conditional). For me, I don’t think we can judge any manager who would have been appointed in February too much owing to the sh** show they inherited. No, fair points. As I said last night - I know it won't seem like it to many - but I am behind JB; as a Rovers supporter I have to be as if he does well, we do well and vice-versa. I guess I'm just trying to add some balance (whilst mixing in some concerns I do have). At the moment, for many on here he seems to be completely immune to any criticism (not yourself, but some on here). For me, that's not right. Yes he has an unbelievably big challenge on his hands, but we thumped Accrington. So there's no real excuse for not picking up points against Wigan and Swindon. I know people will quickly point out they were stupid defensive mistakes etc. but surely those are things Barton is meant to be rectifying. As I said last night, he's been dealt a massively sh*t hand. But it is now his hand and the points returned (in what is/was a relatively straightforward set of fixtures) have not been good enough. Simple as that really. I need to see more to be fully 100% convinced he's as good as many believe - but he will have my backing whilst he attempts to do that.
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Post by axegas on Mar 24, 2021 11:52:53 GMT
Does it matter if you lose them? And does it count given the league was cut short? If it had been cut short the year before, Coughlan would have likely done it. At least he got there, something we haven't achieved for a ridiculously long time. That group of players had already finished in the playoffs under Uwe Rosler, where they had finished fourth with 82 points. IMO, it’s easier to achieve something thats been achieved before.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 24, 2021 11:57:43 GMT
At least he got there, something we haven't achieved for a ridiculously long time. That group of players had already finished in the playoffs under Uwe Rosler, where they had finished fourth with 82 points. IMO, it’s easier to achieve something thats been achieved before. He took over a team that had finished 14th the previous season. He improved that in his first year by finishing 11th and then again with the playoff finish.
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Post by axegas on Mar 24, 2021 12:00:25 GMT
That group of players had already finished in the playoffs under Uwe Rosler, where they had finished fourth with 82 points. IMO, it’s easier to achieve something thats been achieved before. He took over a team that had finished 14th the previous season. He improved that in his first year by finishing 11th and then again with the playoff finish. Yeah a team that had a much higher budget and had finished fourth not so long ago, whereas the last Rovers finished as high as fourth in this division was in 1995. Still not convinced in his managerial ability after it was claimed that he’d surely keep us up.
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Post by LJG on Mar 24, 2021 12:04:33 GMT
What is it with Rovers fans that the default position is to blame the woes of the world on our own club? It's always "Board out" "Sell up" blah blah blah no matter who is in charge. Been the same for the last 30 years. The bottom line is we've got a mediocre manager who has achieved the square root of f**k all in management. Every time a new one of these shysters blows through the door we all want to turn the club upside down to suit them. If we're going down I'd probably rather have had that fraudulent twat Tisdale in charge. At least he's achieved something down there unlike the new messiah who has done zero of note in football management. Ever. When was the last time Bristol Rovers got into the end of season League One playoffs? 22 years or so ago. So that is one thing Barton has done that no Bristol Rovers manager has managed to achieve in over two decades. Big f**king whoop. A play off spot? Big deal. Like I said, he's achieved absolutely nothing.
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Post by Gas-Ed on Mar 24, 2021 12:23:30 GMT
If Barton could reset us to 14th December 2019 that would be great.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 24, 2021 12:24:27 GMT
He took over a team that had finished 14th the previous season. He improved that in his first year by finishing 11th and then again with the playoff finish. Yeah a team that had a much higher budget and had finished fourth not so long ago, whereas the last Rovers finished as high as fourth in this division was in 1995. Still not convinced in his managerial ability after it was claimed that he’d surely keep us up. I don’t remember many claiming he would "surely" keep us up, I'm sure there were a few, but anyone that "surely" believed he would are, with due respect, misguided. Barton took over a team with a toxic combination of conceding too many goals and not scoring enough ourselves. He has improved our chance creation, but not been able to rectify the ball hitting the back of the net. Not surprising considering the striker options we have and little goalscoring contribution from other areas throughout the season. He has also not been helped by having a game every Saturday-Tuesday giving him little coaching contact time to address the key issues. Injuries to key players has also not helped the situation. One thing he can't legislate for is those injuries, but also the senseless individual errors and that has cost us crucial points against the likes of Wigan, Burton and Charlton.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 24, 2021 12:25:03 GMT
When was the last time Bristol Rovers got into the end of season League One playoffs? 22 years or so ago. So that is one thing Barton has done that no Bristol Rovers manager has managed to achieve in over two decades. Big f**king whoop. A play off spot? Big deal. Like I said, he's achieved absolutely nothing. More than we've managed in two decades.
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Post by purdownpoacher1 on Mar 24, 2021 12:36:53 GMT
When was the last time Bristol Rovers got into the end of season League One playoffs? 22 years or so ago. So that is one thing Barton has done that no Bristol Rovers manager has managed to achieve in over two decades. Big f**king whoop. A play off spot? Big deal. Like I said, he's achieved absolutely nothing. And who do you think who has achieved ‘something ‘ is going to want to come to us ! Utg
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Post by LJG on Mar 24, 2021 12:45:05 GMT
Big f**king whoop. A play off spot? Big deal. Like I said, he's achieved absolutely nothing. More than we've managed in two decades. No he hasn't. That's a completely artificial fiction. He joined a club who'd finished 14th in the league and left them 17th in the same league. Achievement - less than nothing.
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Post by LJG on Mar 24, 2021 12:46:18 GMT
Big f**king whoop. A play off spot? Big deal. Like I said, he's achieved absolutely nothing. And who do you think who has achieved ‘something ‘ is going to want to come to us ! Utg That's not really anything to do with the point I'm making.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Mar 24, 2021 12:53:23 GMT
More than we've managed in two decades. No he hasn't. That's a completely artificial fiction. He joined a club who'd finished 14th in the league and left them 17th in the same league. Achievement - less than nothing. No, you are wrong and what you are saying is an "artificial fiction". He left them 10th in the table, three points off the top 6.
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