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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 21:53:35 GMT
Don't be under any illusion, that JB took the job as his ego convinced him that his superior coaching and management abilities would be enough to save us from relegation, and be hailed as a hero. Well, when that obviously wasn't going to plan, he does the usual diversion tactics of blaming everything else as his over inflated ego cannot accept his failings. Blame the ref, blame recruitment, blame limited training opportunities. He knew what the squad was like, knew the fixtures, knew officials at this level can be inconsistent. All managers do this, DC included. If GC had been given 16 matches to save us, we would have ground out at least a point a match. Not pretty, but nobody was there to watch anyway. GC had JCH to help him at the gas, if he had had the likes of Hanlan, Ayunga and Daly he would have failed miserably just like the three managers this season have.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 22:01:54 GMT
Don't be under any illusion, that JB took the job as his ego convinced him that his superior coaching and management abilities would be enough to save us from relegation, and be hailed as a hero. Well, when that obviously wasn't going to plan, he does the usual diversion tactics of blaming everything else as his over inflated ego cannot accept his failings. Blame the ref, blame recruitment, blame limited training opportunities. He knew what the squad was like, knew the fixtures, knew officials at this level can be inconsistent. All managers do this, DC included. If GC had been given 16 matches to save us, we would have ground out at least a point a match. Not pretty, but nobody was there to watch anyway. GC had JCH to help him at the gas, if he had had the likes of Hanlan, Ayunga and Daly he would have failed miserably just like the three managers this season have. I don’t think there is a manager in the world who could have got this useless and mentally weak bunch to ‘grind out’ anything when the pressure was really on at the tail end of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 22:15:24 GMT
So you are assuming Garners points per game over 11 matches would have been the same over 46. Therein lies the reason why your argument is pure speculation. At least it isn’t just blind faith...11 points, 16 games=0.6875 ppg and you seriously want to entrust the future of our club to the holder of such a sad, inadequate, miserable record? Add on his 1.6ppg over 20 league games at Fleetwood this season to his gas total and that far exceeds what BG achieved over his 11games for the Rovers. His replacement has only achieved 1.17ppg over 23games and he had the January window. The basic fact is that JB inherited a crap squad that BG and TW got together, had no transfer window to bring anybody in and failed to save us. That fact does not make him a bad manager as proved by his record at Fleetwood.
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Post by GasAttacK on Apr 24, 2021 22:21:33 GMT
Our squad simply aren't capable of grinding out results.
GC had a squad capable of grinding out results, Tony Craig, Tom Lockyer, James Clarke, Abu Ogogo, Stuart Sinclair, Ollie Clarke, Jonson Clarke-Harris etc.
Even if they weren't at their best those were players you could rely on to at least put in a shift, mark their men, track their runners, win their 50/50's, avoid stupid mistakes etc, and JCH was always likely to score.
The squad GC had in the second half of the 2018/19 season would destroy our current bunch without breaking sweat.
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Post by gaschat on Apr 24, 2021 22:27:40 GMT
At least it isn’t just blind faith...11 points, 16 games=0.6875 ppg and you seriously want to entrust the future of our club to the holder of such a sad, inadequate, miserable record? Add on his 1.6ppg over 20 league games at Fleetwood this season to his gas total and that far exceeds what BG achieved over his 11games for the Rovers. His replacement has only achieved 1.17ppg over 23games and he had the January window. The basic fact is that JB inherited a crap squad that BG and TW got together, had no transfer window to bring anybody in and failed to save us. That fact does not make him a bad manager as proved by his record at Fleetwood. We will have to agree to differ...I really don’t give a toss about his record at Fleetwood, with us he’s been an unmitigated failure and I have no idea why you or anyone else seeks to defend his record by pointing to what he did at Fleetwood.
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Post by Fat Albert on Apr 24, 2021 23:09:52 GMT
Don't be under any illusion, that JB took the job as his ego convinced him that his superior coaching and management abilities would be enough to save us from relegation, and be hailed as a hero. Well, when that obviously wasn't going to plan, he does the usual diversion tactics of blaming everything else as his over inflated ego cannot accept his failings. Blame the ref, blame recruitment, blame limited training opportunities. He knew what the squad was like, knew the fixtures, knew officials at this level can be inconsistent. All managers do this, DC included. If GC had been given 16 matches to save us, we would have ground out at least a point a match. Not pretty, but nobody was there to watch anyway. I also thought this - come in, save the day, get a better job somewhere else for next season. Now it’s all gone horribly wrong! Hopefully he will put it right next year... UTG
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Post by TAGas on Apr 25, 2021 0:01:32 GMT
We've had no "fight" since GC departed, you can't solely blame Barton for the mess created since he left. Correct but you can hold him accountable for what has happened since he arrived...and we are significantly worse than we were under Garner and Tisdale with the same players. Ignoring all of the unsavoury baggage Barton brings with him, his personal performance has been absolutely abysmal. Bartons record is the worst in the football league and if he had any class and any self awareness he would apologise and resign. can't really say he's worse then Garner... Garner had 2 transfer windows and also had the players fresh from the start of the season. Barton 0 transfer windows and by the time he came in key player's injured and in the back of their minds relegation is a strong possibility. Garner won 6 in 33 games and for a period had Tony Craig and JCH in his team that's only 3 more games won then Barton
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Post by bally144 on Apr 25, 2021 6:46:19 GMT
Add on his 1.6ppg over 20 league games at Fleetwood this season to his gas total and that far exceeds what BG achieved over his 11games for the Rovers. His replacement has only achieved 1.17ppg over 23games and he had the January window. The basic fact is that JB inherited a crap squad that BG and TW got together, had no transfer window to bring anybody in and failed to save us. That fact does not make him a bad manager as proved by his record at Fleetwood. We will have to agree to differ...I really don’t give a toss about his record at Fleetwood, with us he’s been an unmitigated failure and I have no idea why you or anyone else seeks to defend his record by pointing to what he did at Fleetwood. I have to agree that a quality manager should be able to have some significant influence on any squad they inherit through man management & coaching etc. At Fleetwood where Barton could select the exact player profiles he wanted he did relatively well but a really good manager can adapt their style to the players they inherit. I want the type of player here that Barton wants, i.e. mentally resilient & passionate, but he will never become a good manager until he can work with and affect players who may need building up in those areas and don’t respond to his natural coaching/management style.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 7:08:16 GMT
Correct but you can hold him accountable for what has happened since he arrived...and we are significantly worse than we were under Garner and Tisdale with the same players. Ignoring all of the unsavoury baggage Barton brings with him, his personal performance has been absolutely abysmal. Bartons record is the worst in the football league and if he had any class and any self awareness he would apologise and resign. can't really say he's worse then Garner... Garner had 2 transfer windows and also had the players fresh from the start of the season. Barton 0 transfer windows and by the time he came in key player's injured and in the back of their minds relegation is a strong possibility. Garner won 6 in 33 games and for a period had Tony Craig and JCH in his team that's only 3 more games won then Barton Spot on Garner only won 3 games this season with his totally revamped squad and before he was sacked 3 in the curtailed season with the players he inherited from GC. The very same players who had got us to 4th place in the league.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 7:16:48 GMT
Were the Barton haters pointing this much blame at DC for the league 2 relegation? If anything that squad would beat this current shower of sh**e we have now! People are directing most of the blame to Barton purely because they don’t like him because of his history.
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Post by 68 on Apr 25, 2021 7:39:11 GMT
we need to back him 100% fans owner everyone We should have backed Tisdale in January.
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 25, 2021 8:04:16 GMT
We will have to agree to differ...I really don’t give a toss about his record at Fleetwood, with us he’s been an unmitigated failure and I have no idea why you or anyone else seeks to defend his record by pointing to what he did at Fleetwood. I have to agree that a quality manager should be able to have some significant influence on any squad they inherit through man management & coaching etc. At Fleetwood where Barton could select the exact player profiles he wanted he did relatively well but a really good manager can adapt their style to the players they inherit. I want the type of player here that Barton wants, i.e. mentally resilient & passionate, but he will never become a good manager until he can work with and affect players who may need building up in those areas and don’t respond to his natural coaching/management style. I doubt Barton just signed all senior pros for Fleetwood?
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Post by Topper Gas on Apr 25, 2021 8:07:33 GMT
Add on his 1.6ppg over 20 league games at Fleetwood this season to his gas total and that far exceeds what BG achieved over his 11games for the Rovers. His replacement has only achieved 1.17ppg over 23games and he had the January window. The basic fact is that JB inherited a crap squad that BG and TW got together, had no transfer window to bring anybody in and failed to save us. That fact does not make him a bad manager as proved by his record at Fleetwood. We will have to agree to differ...I really don’t give a toss about his record at Fleetwood, with us he’s been an unmitigated failure and I have no idea why you or anyone else seeks to defend his record by pointing to what he did at Fleetwood. Surely that's how any appointment works in any job, you look at a potential employees past record? Unless you promote internally and already know the candidate.
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Post by trevorgas on Apr 25, 2021 8:09:45 GMT
We will have to agree to differ...I really don’t give a toss about his record at Fleetwood, with us he’s been an unmitigated failure and I have no idea why you or anyone else seeks to defend his record by pointing to what he did at Fleetwood. I have to agree that a quality manager should be able to have some significant influence on any squad they inherit through man management & coaching etc. At Fleetwood where Barton could select the exact player profiles he wanted he did relatively well but a really good manager can adapt their style to the players they inherit. I want the type of player here that Barton wants, i.e. mentally resilient & passionate, but he will never become a good manager until he can work with and affect players who may need building up in those areas and don’t respond to his natural coaching/management style. Perhaps consider that a lot of the current squad are not mentally resilient or passionate and you can't teach that,if they haven't got it in their character they haven't got it full stop. Looking at goals givend away and missed many of the players are just not good enough,they don't have the basic intrinsic ability and I would suggest that no amount of coaching can change that,we lack quality all over the pitch.
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Post by Strange Gas on Apr 25, 2021 8:12:01 GMT
I back him for one reason, and one reason only. He has a point to prove, just as DC did. That is invaluable. Can he do it? We have no idea, but I think we have seen enough indications he wants to and help sort the club issues more broadly. The TW issue is the problem I think, and I suspect that will be a fight to the death for one or other. But if it TW that wins, I fear we are back to where we were with BG
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Apr 25, 2021 8:12:33 GMT
Were the Barton haters pointing this much blame at DC for the league 2 relegation? If anything that squad would beat this current shower of sh**e we have now! People are directing most of the blame to Barton purely because they don’t like him because of his history. I'm not a hater but I don't agree with this. I think it is the different approach and the blame culture has been played to death by Joey.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Apr 25, 2021 8:15:18 GMT
I back him for one reason, and one reason only. He has a point to prove, just as DC did. That is invaluable. Can he do it? We have no idea, but I think we have seen enough indications he wants to and help sort the club issues more broadly. The TW issue is the problem I think, and I suspect that will be a fight to the death for one or other. But if it TW that wins, I fear we are back to where we were with BG This is what I like about him. It scares me to death to fully back him but if we don't then I'll be worried we'll be thinking what if!
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Post by gaschat on Apr 25, 2021 8:20:19 GMT
We will have to agree to differ...I really don’t give a toss about his record at Fleetwood, with us he’s been an unmitigated failure and I have no idea why you or anyone else seeks to defend his record by pointing to what he did at Fleetwood. Surely that's how any appointment works in any job, you look at a potential employees past record? Unless you promote internally and already know the candidate. When appointing you are right...but when said appointee turns up and makes a complete hash of the job, missing all the key targets and blaming everyone and everything else, he will be judged on what you have witnessed, not what was done elsewhere in the past.
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Post by worrelsterlingalbion on Apr 25, 2021 8:34:07 GMT
Surely that's how any appointment works in any job, you look at a potential employees past record? Unless you promote internally and already know the candidate. When appointing you are right...but when said appointee turns up and makes a complete hash of the job, missing all the key targets and blaming everyone and everything else, he will be judged on what you have witnessed, not what was done elsewhere in the past. Of course that's true but you also have to take into account the circumstances. An already struggling squad, injuries to key players, an absolute shambolic recruitment that left us with 3 strikers two of whom had never scored a league goal. If we allowed Garner a summer overhaul after what he managed with a squad challenging for the play offs when he arrived then Barton should be given the same chance
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Post by bridgwatergas on Apr 25, 2021 8:35:50 GMT
For me there is no dilemma. We could have carried on losing 3/4 million a year and eventually go out of business which Wael wasn't going to allow to continue. I understand the way we went I just think we went about it the wrong way,hindsight is a wonderful thing but bringing in that many players and rebuilding a squad from near enough scratch was never and has never been the way forward. Sacking 2 managers in a season is also a sure fire way of being relegated history will show you that and now is the time to back the man who is in charge whether you like him or not. I read certain posters slating his record and comparing him with other managers this season you just can't do that due to all the circumstances. BG built the side and trained them in pre season to play a certain way. Some seem to forget pre season is the most important part of the any season get it wrong and you will suffer. It seems BG bought in players to flood the midfield and play 1 up front. Yes I was concerned with 3 strikers but if you are playing one up front I sort of understand this. I still think sacking BG was hasty and you can check back I said it at the time and my stance has never changed I think we hit the panic button way too early but that's my opinion and I know it's not overly popular. We can't go on having a revolving door we need to stick with JB now whether you are a fan or not and build a side that he wants. Yes his record here is not good but give him the chance to build his side as the current and previous models were not working and are not sustainable. I'm just happy we have a club to go back to in August and hopefully JB can build a team we can get behind and be proud of pulling on the blue and white quarters UTG
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