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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 13, 2021 10:19:52 GMT
I'm not blaming BG for our poor start to the season! I'm blaming BG for his hand in dismantling a winning team, genuinely challenging for promotion and the club's subsequent struggle afterwards.... It will take years to recover from the mess BG left us in, and ongoing failures since. Interesting it appears my question goes unanswered as of now. He was given a remit by the board to reduce the wage bill, play a different style and get value from players. SO we have to base him only on last season when he was fully operating under that remit with "his" team. Did he get all the right players in and build a team, no. Has he learnt from that, probably. The fact is over last season and this season he is our most successful manager! Hard to swallow but a fact. Will JB turn it all around, as this is now of HIS making, again a fact. His squad? Haha, I eventually worked it out as I replied to your mis quote before re reading the thread. Can't argue with any of the points your post raises. Sad indictment BG stats compared to 2 after. I find it quite ironic your post raises the point of reducing wage bill, yet with some of his signings we've terminated contracts and pretty much got rid of most his signings!? The way I see it, BG laid foundations of relegation team and by February most of the damage had been done, primarily because there was no reparations in the second transfer window.. Your post says BG probably learned mistakes....I think that's the important bit which is great for him, but another reason why I won't be welcoming BG in the Mem, in fact I'm amazed he managed to find employment again in professional league football. Just to be clear, just because I won't be welcoming him doesn't mean I'll be throwing sh*t at him. It'll be a dignified silence from my part..... unless he wants some! Haha!
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Post by gasandelectricity on Sept 13, 2021 11:35:55 GMT
Just to be clear, just because I won't be welcoming him doesn't mean I'll be throwing sh*t at him. It'll be a dignified silence from my part..... unless he wants some! Haha! This. With an accompanied grumble to myself. If he steps out of his dugout though and gets all personal with the 4th he’s getting the usual treatment.
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Post by bluebiro on Sept 13, 2021 11:49:43 GMT
Just to be clear, just because I won't be welcoming him doesn't mean I'll be throwing sh*t at him. It'll be a dignified silence from my part..... unless he wants some! Haha! This. With an accompanied grumble to myself. If he steps out of his dugout though and gets all personal with the 4th he’s getting the usual treatment. he will need more then a cold hard stare and a wink
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Post by kampucheagas on Sept 13, 2021 16:24:59 GMT
You raise good points, and I agree with a lot of your points But do you not feel, once the decisions had been made, the club needed to hold firm and see it through? Um, no. I think the club knew it had made a grave mistake. Time was not the issue. BG was. There was not one match we lost under BG that I thought (or most others if you care to review the posters players marks) we deserved something out of. In essence we were well beaten in all matches we lost (you could argue Mansfield, Stevenage and even yesterday Hartlepool we matched our opponents for most if not all match and unlucky to lose them all), all the while BG watched scratching his beard and made like for like subs 65-75 mins. For example....to start the season with no striker, bring Ayunga on at half time when 2-0 down away to Ipswich and then make passing comments on the 'journey' as an excuse is just patronising and insulting to intelligence. He started the next match, league game v Sunderland away playing Alfie on the left of a back 3..... ? Time.....? Yep, time gentleman please. No one is right or wrong on this particular argument! Only with hindsight can we make assumptions, and even then they are only opinions! In my opinion, if you embark upon a radical new path, you don’t abandon it early. Yes, we could all see the mistakes, but who in a new managerial role doesn’t? I know I continue to make them. What was needed was an older head alongside him and some better direction from above. Both were missing. It’s a shame, in my opinion, that the club didn’t hold its nerve. At the time I was probably vocal about his results, but at the end of the day the board should have had the courage to continue. It surely couldn’t have ended any worse than it did! Which leaves our current position. Do we now just plough on because it has been fruitless to chop and change recently? Or continue our hire and fire policy of late? I’m no Barton supporter but I’m probably just about in the camp that says he needs more time. The tragedy of this story is that outside influences could derail our season and leave us in a perilous relegation scrap next year. I’d settle for any spot in the top 15 right now. UTG
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Post by BrightonGas on Sept 13, 2021 16:44:08 GMT
Think some are getting excited at the thought of Garner winning this game. I think given how sh** Barton has been some have forgotten how sh** Garner was too. Ultimately, some seem to have forgotten under whom this rot started. Won’t be getting a good reception from me. At the time we thought he was sh**, turns out he was good. It's all relative.
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Post by gasandelectricity on Sept 13, 2021 17:04:29 GMT
Think some are getting excited at the thought of Garner winning this game. I think given how sh** Barton has been some have forgotten how sh** Garner was too. Ultimately, some seem to have forgotten under whom this rot started. Won’t be getting a good reception from me. At the time we thought he was sh**, turns out he was good. It's all relative. He was still sh**. Just because the other two were arguably even more sh** doesn’t mean that he wasn’t sh**.
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Post by BrightonGas on Sept 13, 2021 17:24:49 GMT
He's definitely on the sh** spectrum
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 13, 2021 18:16:30 GMT
Um, no. I think the club knew it had made a grave mistake. Time was not the issue. BG was. There was not one match we lost under BG that I thought (or most others if you care to review the posters players marks) we deserved something out of. In essence we were well beaten in all matches we lost (you could argue Mansfield, Stevenage and even yesterday Hartlepool we matched our opponents for most if not all match and unlucky to lose them all), all the while BG watched scratching his beard and made like for like subs 65-75 mins. For example....to start the season with no striker, bring Ayunga on at half time when 2-0 down away to Ipswich and then make passing comments on the 'journey' as an excuse is just patronising and insulting to intelligence. He started the next match, league game v Sunderland away playing Alfie on the left of a back 3..... ? Time.....? Yep, time gentleman please. No one is right or wrong on this particular argument! Only with hindsight can we make assumptions, and even then they are only opinions! In my opinion, if you embark upon a radical new path, you don’t abandon it early. Yes, we could all see the mistakes, but who in a new managerial role doesn’t? I know I continue to make them. What was needed was an older head alongside him and some better direction from above. Both were missing. It’s a shame, in my opinion, that the club didn’t hold its nerve. At the time I was probably vocal about his results, but at the end of the day the board should have had the courage to continue. It surely couldn’t have ended any worse than it did! Which leaves our current position. Do we now just plough on because it has been fruitless to chop and change recently? Or continue our hire and fire policy of late? I’m no Barton supporter but I’m probably just about in the camp that says he needs more time. The tragedy of this story is that outside influences could derail our season and leave us in a perilous relegation scrap next year. I’d settle for any spot in the top 15 right now. UTG I agree with your last sentence. But the rest.....na. At what point did you think it was worth investing in BG apart from the romantic notion it might work? What evidence was provided that we could see, made you think this was worth giving more time? How does dismantling a winning over-performing squad into an under performing losing squad constitute a success? And why would you give more time to this philosophy? Interesting.....my question still goes unanswered: Can anyone name one tactic that truly worked on the pitch under BG ? (Apart from the release of RN, for which I give credit to,) * TN
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Post by kampucheagas on Sept 13, 2021 19:57:01 GMT
No one is right or wrong on this particular argument! Only with hindsight can we make assumptions, and even then they are only opinions! In my opinion, if you embark upon a radical new path, you don’t abandon it early. Yes, we could all see the mistakes, but who in a new managerial role doesn’t? I know I continue to make them. What was needed was an older head alongside him and some better direction from above. Both were missing. It’s a shame, in my opinion, that the club didn’t hold its nerve. At the time I was probably vocal about his results, but at the end of the day the board should have had the courage to continue. It surely couldn’t have ended any worse than it did! Which leaves our current position. Do we now just plough on because it has been fruitless to chop and change recently? Or continue our hire and fire policy of late? I’m no Barton supporter but I’m probably just about in the camp that says he needs more time. The tragedy of this story is that outside influences could derail our season and leave us in a perilous relegation scrap next year. I’d settle for any spot in the top 15 right now. UTG I agree with your last sentence. But the rest.....na. At what point did you think it was worth investing in BG apart from the romantic notion it might work? What evidence was provided that we could see, made you think this was worth giving more time? How does dismantling a winning over-performing squad into an under performing losing squad constitute a success? And why would you give more time to this philosophy? Interesting.....my question still goes unanswered: Can anyone name one tactic that truly worked on the pitch under BG ? (Apart from the release of RN, for which I give credit to,) * TN Can’t remember that far back!! Just out of interest then, should Barton be sacked now in your opinion?
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Post by Topper Gas on Sept 13, 2021 20:33:02 GMT
No one is right or wrong on this particular argument! Only with hindsight can we make assumptions, and even then they are only opinions! In my opinion, if you embark upon a radical new path, you don’t abandon it early. Yes, we could all see the mistakes, but who in a new managerial role doesn’t? I know I continue to make them. What was needed was an older head alongside him and some better direction from above. Both were missing. It’s a shame, in my opinion, that the club didn’t hold its nerve. At the time I was probably vocal about his results, but at the end of the day the board should have had the courage to continue. It surely couldn’t have ended any worse than it did! Which leaves our current position. Do we now just plough on because it has been fruitless to chop and change recently? Or continue our hire and fire policy of late? I’m no Barton supporter but I’m probably just about in the camp that says he needs more time. The tragedy of this story is that outside influences could derail our season and leave us in a perilous relegation scrap next year. I’d settle for any spot in the top 15 right now. UTG I agree with your last sentence. But the rest.....na. At what point did you think it was worth investing in BG apart from the romantic notion it might work? What evidence was provided that we could see, made you think this was worth giving more time? How does dismantling a winning over-performing squad into an under performing losing squad constitute a success? And why would you give more time to this philosophy? Interesting.....my question still goes unanswered: Can anyone name one tactic that truly worked on the pitch under BG ? (Apart from the release of RN, for which I give credit to,) * TN Our away from under BG just before he was dismissed is something we can only dream about now, it was something like 3 wins (Walsall in the FA Cup, Shrewsbury & Lincoln) and a draw (Rochdale) a tactic or two must have been working away from home.
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Post by Icegas on Sept 13, 2021 21:27:43 GMT
Um, no. I think the club knew it had made a grave mistake. Time was not the issue. BG was. There was not one match we lost under BG that I thought (or most others if you care to review the posters players marks) we deserved something out of. In essence we were well beaten in all matches we lost (you could argue Mansfield, Stevenage and even yesterday Hartlepool we matched our opponents for most if not all match and unlucky to lose them all), all the while BG watched scratching his beard and made like for like subs 65-75 mins. For example....to start the season with no striker, bring Ayunga on at half time when 2-0 down away to Ipswich and then make passing comments on the 'journey' as an excuse is just patronising and insulting to intelligence. He started the next match, league game v Sunderland away playing Alfie on the left of a back 3..... ? Time.....? Yep, time gentleman please. No one is right or wrong on this particular argument! Only with hindsight can we make assumptions, and even then they are only opinions! In my opinion, if you embark upon a radical new path, you don’t abandon it early. Yes, we could all see the mistakes, but who in a new managerial role doesn’t? I know I continue to make them. What was needed was an older head alongside him and some better direction from above. Both were missing. It’s a shame, in my opinion, that the club didn’t hold its nerve. At the time I was probably vocal about his results, but at the end of the day the board should have had the courage to continue. It surely couldn’t have ended any worse than it did! Which leaves our current position. Do we now just plough on because it has been fruitless to chop and change recently? Or continue our hire and fire policy of late? I’m no Barton supporter but I’m probably just about in the camp that says he needs more time. The tragedy of this story is that outside influences could derail our season and leave us in a perilous relegation scrap next year. I’d settle for any spot in the top 15 right now. UTG I couldn't connect with BG as he was dull, boring and talked in riddles about phase's of play and all the sky tv overthinking language of today's game.He was emotionally passionless.Him following DC and to a lesser extent GC was like so dull and emotionless. I also can't forgive him for the way he just broke up a team that was 4th in L1 at xmas when he took over.All he had to do with that side was to try and keep ticking it over from GC and then rebuild slowly, but he took us towards the bottom end of the table in weeks by ripping it apart. He is BY FAR our worse manager EVER!!! He f**ked this club up that much that it will take years to recover. As for Barton, I was pro him when he joined as he had passion and was a young coach.But now he is taking the water and excuse after excuse is telling me to give him 3 more games until we are at the ten game point. If no improvement he needs to go then.!! BG is our worse manager ever, and right now JB is a close 2nd.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 14, 2021 6:14:54 GMT
I agree with your last sentence. But the rest.....na. At what point did you think it was worth investing in BG apart from the romantic notion it might work? What evidence was provided that we could see, made you think this was worth giving more time? How does dismantling a winning over-performing squad into an under performing losing squad constitute a success? And why would you give more time to this philosophy? Interesting.....my question still goes unanswered: Can anyone name one tactic that truly worked on the pitch under BG ? (Apart from the release of RN, for which I give credit to,) * TN Can’t remember that far back!! Just out of interest then, should Barton be sacked now in your opinion? Sacked? What for?
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 14, 2021 6:17:56 GMT
I agree with your last sentence. But the rest.....na. At what point did you think it was worth investing in BG apart from the romantic notion it might work? What evidence was provided that we could see, made you think this was worth giving more time? How does dismantling a winning over-performing squad into an under performing losing squad constitute a success? And why would you give more time to this philosophy? Interesting.....my question still goes unanswered: Can anyone name one tactic that truly worked on the pitch under BG ? (Apart from the release of RN, for which I give credit to,) * TN Our away from under BG just before he was dismissed is something we can only dream about now, it was something like 3 wins (Walsall in the FA Cup, Shrewsbury & Lincoln) and a draw (Rochdale) a tactic or two must have been working away from home. And, opening v Sunderland....an Alamo draw. Yep, that's me sold. Bring it back.....BG 4eva.
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Post by kampucheagas on Sept 14, 2021 6:49:30 GMT
Can’t remember that far back!! Just out of interest then, should Barton be sacked now in your opinion? Sacked? What for? I couldn’t possibly imagine……..
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Post by Baxtinho on Sept 14, 2021 8:01:30 GMT
Can’t remember that far back!! Just out of interest then, should Barton be sacked now in your opinion? Sacked? What for? 😂😂😂 Barton believers really must have to try hard to block out stuff 6 wins in 27, that's before we talk about the two trials and all the assaults that have come before.
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Post by yetigas on Sept 14, 2021 8:06:43 GMT
No one is right or wrong on this particular argument! Only with hindsight can we make assumptions, and even then they are only opinions! In my opinion, if you embark upon a radical new path, you don’t abandon it early. Yes, we could all see the mistakes, but who in a new managerial role doesn’t? I know I continue to make them. What was needed was an older head alongside him and some better direction from above. Both were missing. It’s a shame, in my opinion, that the club didn’t hold its nerve. At the time I was probably vocal about his results, but at the end of the day the board should have had the courage to continue. It surely couldn’t have ended any worse than it did! Which leaves our current position. Do we now just plough on because it has been fruitless to chop and change recently? Or continue our hire and fire policy of late? I’m no Barton supporter but I’m probably just about in the camp that says he needs more time. The tragedy of this story is that outside influences could derail our season and leave us in a perilous relegation scrap next year. I’d settle for any spot in the top 15 right now. UTG I couldn't connect with BG as he was dull, boring and talked in riddles about phase's of play and all the sky tv overthinking language of today's game.He was emotionally passionless. Him following DC and to a lesser extent GC was like so dull and emotionless.I also can't forgive him for the way he just broke up a team that was 4th in L1 at xmas when he took over.All he had to do with that side was to try and keep ticking it over from GC and then rebuild slowly, but he took us towards the bottom end of the table in weeks by ripping it apart. He is BY FAR our worse manager EVER!!! He f**ked this club up that much that it will take years to recover. As for Barton, I was pro him when he joined as he had passion and was a young coach.But now he is taking the P?!s and excuse after excuse is telling me to give him 3 more games until we are at the ten game point. If no improvement he needs to go then.!! BG is our worse manager ever, and right now JB is a close 2nd. 'Him following DC and to a lesser extent GC was like so dull and emotionless'. Wow....he was a a football manager, not your girlfriend!! ' He is BY FAR our worse manager EVER'.. You must be very young!! 'As for Barton, I was pro him when he joined as he had passion' ..Really? what was the evidence of his passion? All I observed was a poor manager who gave up on fighting relegation. No passion, no commitment.
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Post by Icegas on Sept 14, 2021 9:13:33 GMT
I couldn't connect with BG as he was dull, boring and talked in riddles about phase's of play and all the sky tv overthinking language of today's game.He was emotionally passionless. Him following DC and to a lesser extent GC was like so dull and emotionless.I also can't forgive him for the way he just broke up a team that was 4th in L1 at xmas when he took over.All he had to do with that side was to try and keep ticking it over from GC and then rebuild slowly, but he took us towards the bottom end of the table in weeks by ripping it apart. He is BY FAR our worse manager EVER!!! He f**ked this club up that much that it will take years to recover. As for Barton, I was pro him when he joined as he had passion and was a young coach.But now he is taking the P?!s and excuse after excuse is telling me to give him 3 more games until we are at the ten game point. If no improvement he needs to go then.!! BG is our worse manager ever, and right now JB is a close 2nd. 'Him following DC and to a lesser extent GC was like so dull and emotionless'. Wow....he was a a football manager, not your girlfriend!! ' He is BY FAR our worse manager EVER'.. You must be very young!! 'As for Barton, I was pro him when he joined as he had passion' ..Really? what was the evidence of his passion? All I observed was a poor manager who gave up on fighting relegation. No passion, no commitment. I'm 39, so I've been following Rovers since 1993 so not so young really in watching Rovers terms. Name 5 managers worse than BG? The only ones that I remember even being close to BG in nearly 30 years following us are. 1) Ray Graydon 2 John Ward ( 2nd time) 3) Mark Mcgee 4) Paul Buckle.. I know BG was not my Girlfriend,what a stupid thing to say.He was a truely shocking football manager that will go down as one of our worse, if not our worst ever based on stats alone. And I meant Barton was passionate before he come here, that's why I said when/before he was appointed.
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Post by o2o2bo2ba on Sept 14, 2021 10:01:34 GMT
😂😂😂 Barton believers really must have to try hard to block out stuff 6 wins in 27, that's before we talk about the two trials and all the assaults that have come before. We're kinda off topic, but I'll indulge... I'm neutral re JAB as it stands today. I always wanted to watch a batch in my own eyes before making my own judgement....so as it stands for me, the jury is very much out and I remain neutral because I can't see anything yet that justifies sacking or gross misconduct. Your point on assaults or criminal records, well the club have a history of employing such people, and some of their funding comes from people convicted of assault.... just putting it out there for consistency. JAB: Record is poor. I see some good in every match I see (I missed Exeter away), there are hopefuls and prospects but the results business make me sway towards get rid every match we don't win.
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Post by Icegas on Sept 14, 2021 10:24:51 GMT
😂😂😂 Barton believers really must have to try hard to block out stuff 6 wins in 27, that's before we talk about the two trials and all the assaults that have come before. We're kinda off topic, but I'll indulge... I'm neutral re JAB as it stands today. I always wanted to watch a batch in my own eyes before making my own judgement....so as it stands for me, the jury is very much out and I remain neutral because I can't see anything yet that justifies sacking or gross misconduct. Your point on assaults or criminal records, well the club have a history of employing such people, and some of their funding comes from people convicted of assault.... just putting it out there for consistency. JAB: Record is poor. I see some good in every match I see (I missed Exeter away), there are hopefuls and prospects but the results business make me sway towards get rid every match we don't win. I see the same.But right now we can't hold onto him just because it's different from what we have done in the past two years by sacking BG and PT.. I'm old school and like a manager to have time to build long term if you can see clear progress.Like two or three years.There wasn't with BG, or PT and I see little if any with JB. Thing with JB is he is a firework ready to go off.Be it by his actions, or in regards to his up coming court cases. Basically he knows that he might or probably won't be here in come Christmas as he will be forced to quit or the club will act if he is sentenced. Basically I have no doubt JB wants to be successful here but he knows that he is not going to be here long term one way or another. I could see why we might sit tight if we were just relegated from the championship into L1, but we haven't been, we have just dropped from L1 into L2.There is no space for error here in regards to us dropping out of the league and from what I've seen there is a real danger of us being in a dog fight in that regard come Christmas. As I've said before, 3 more games and 5/6 points are needed for me to give him anymore time after that. We are not Barton Rovers, we are Bristol Rovers FC.Our future as a club can not be gambled on a person not doing there job correctly.
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Post by SleepyGas on Sept 14, 2021 10:26:53 GMT
'Him following DC and to a lesser extent GC was like so dull and emotionless'. Wow....he was a a football manager, not your girlfriend!! ' He is BY FAR our worse manager EVER'.. You must be very young!! 'As for Barton, I was pro him when he joined as he had passion' ..Really? what was the evidence of his passion? All I observed was a poor manager who gave up on fighting relegation. No passion, no commitment. I'm 39, so I've been following Rovers since 1993 so not so young really in watching Rovers terms. Name 5 managers worse than BG? The only ones that I remember even being close to BG in nearly 30 years following us are. 1) Ray Graydon 2 John Ward ( 2nd time) 3) Mark Mcgee 4) Paul Buckle.. I know BG was not my Girlfriend,what a stupid thing to say.He was a truely shocking football manager that will go down as one of our worse, if not our worst ever based on stats alone. And I meant Barton was passionate before he come here, that's why I said when/before he was appointed. Using win ratio as the metric and ruling out caretakers.. The 5 worst managers in the last 30 years are: 5. Paul Tisdale (26.2%) 4. Joey Barton* (22.2%) updated from 16.7% currently recorded on Wiki after 24 games3. Ben Garner (18.2%) 2. Dave Penney (15.4%) 1. Martin Dobson (8.3%) * - Not out Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bristol_Rovers_F.C._managers Also I note John Ward has had both his tenures combined in the Wiki table which will obviously have lifted his win % .. although he did very well in the first part of his second stint.. seem to recall him taking us from the relegation zone to a play off charge...
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