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Post by knowall on Mar 30, 2020 19:39:40 GMT
Topper, you seem to have taken over as the fiercest defender of Wael Al-Qadi from gashead1981 which in itself is quite an admiral thing, and which could mean you know something the rest of us are unaware of. To give us all some confidence that you know what you are talking about, and are not Wael Al-Qadi or a member of the family in disguise why don't you tell us who you are? Swissgas and I and some others have let it be known who we are and why we hold the views we do, so why not you? Your view would then have some validity. As it is, you are just someone with an axe to grind but no qualifications to offer the opinions you do. Come out of the closet - or - frankly - SHUT UP.
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Post by knowall on Mar 30, 2020 14:20:10 GMT
It's easy to say we need new owners but are you living in a hole or something as can't you see there are businesses going bust all over the UK, ones that were trading nicely until a month ago, where are these new owners suddenly going to spring from offering Wael £m's to sell up? Not sure what repeating the owners failing is supposed to achieve, we all know their failings, but continually listing them isn't going to change things, all we can hope his MS now brings spending down to a reasonable level, we seem to be heading in the right direction, and that Wael continues to support the debts as if he doesn't we're done for. As far as the training ground I understood that was owned by Dwane Developements so any money spent on that is down to the ALQ's nothing to do with BRFC1883. As far as the office in London have you any real proof it cost £250K? Does that figure include the two members of staff wages who worked out of there? As far as the loans if they hadn't been repaid they'd still be showing as debts on our accounts and always a danger they could be called in, which is where Oldham seem to be coming unstuck at present. The training ground is owned by Dwane Colony Ltd a Jersey company apparently owned by the Al Qadi family. At June 30th 2018 the BRFC 1883 Ltd accounts showed that Dwane Colony Ltd owed BRFC 1883 Ltd £ 198,799 for money spent on the training ground. The 2019 accounts are much shorter, 23 pages instead of 39, and do not disclose how much BRFC 1883 Ltd spent during the year on Dwane Colony Ltd’s training ground but the amount owed is now likely to be in excess of £ 300, 000. So Dwane Sports Ltd are lending money to BRFC 1883 Ltd and charging interest on it but some of that money is being spent on maintaining a Dwane Colony Ltd asset. Interesting points swissgas, and could it be that the 16 less pages might have also shown something else significant?, for instance who the other creditors are and how much they are each owed? In today's financial climate is it possible that any of the creditors are pressing hard for payment? even possibly through the courts?, and if so, are any pushing for a winding up order? Especially, as you point out, these accounts are virtually a year out of debt - so what is the picture now? - what is the real horror show?
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Post by knowall on Mar 29, 2020 12:18:16 GMT
Does anyone know if our level of debt is unusual? I mean actually know rather than speculating/make needless barbed comments/telling us all we're doomed etc etc. Not in the slightest. Some on here just seem to love getting in a flap over it. I don't think it helps to see that we owe three times our annual turnover.
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Post by knowall on Mar 27, 2020 16:25:52 GMT
£700'000 interest on the debt? I thought the whole point of the offshore accounting was to avoid interest? Come off it, the Al-Qadi family have to eat, and that interest means they are only earning about £3000 per home match, surely the real question for them is 'could they be earning more if their money was invested elsewhere?
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Post by knowall on Mar 27, 2020 16:07:04 GMT
Edit wael will ruin it himself One silver lining is that turnover is up by over £500,000 from £5.8 million to almost £6.4 million. Tom Gorringe clearly earning his wages. Other than that it’s pretty bleak viewing, got to be said. yes, turnover up over £500,000 BUT cost of sales up over £1,000,000
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Post by knowall on Mar 20, 2020 11:51:09 GMT
I think you miss the point about the interest free loan offered by the EFL, while the Al-Qadi's will have access to low interest rate finance, they charge the Football Club at a premium rate for the money they are lending to us. But who owns the club? Not sure 5% is a premium rate, it sounds competitive to me, not Wonga rates like the last board were prepared to accept. Anyway keep up your anti-Wael agenda if it makes you feel better. Firstly, if you refer back you will find I was critical of the loan the previous Board obtained even though they were under pressure to find one, and 5% is not currently particularly favourable in my view. By the way £20 million at 5% is £1 million. Secondly, I am not anti Wael, I want the best for Bristol Rovers, a Club I have supported for seventy years and there are other options available. You ask 'who owns the Club?' - answer - the shareholders, of which I am just one of many and yes, before you tell me, Dwayne are the major shareholder. Finally, as you seem to have an opinion of me and I am open as to who I am, perhaps you would also divulge who you are, rather than my responding to your avatar?
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Post by knowall on Mar 20, 2020 11:08:10 GMT
Sorry to disappoint you Topper, but as the £250,000 is money that will eventually be due to the Club, paying it now is an excellent move and should be applauded - which I do, especially if it allows staff to keep their jobs. The £183,000 is a loan but as it is interest free then it will also be helpful in what are exceptional circumstances. Add the confirmation today that Wael Al-Qadi is to pay staff wages himself this month - also generous, especially if that is also interest free. Perhaps, in view of your comment here and previously, I should explain that my view on our Club's finances is fashioned by the fact that I spent the final 35 years of my business career providing loans. Consequently, I have seen the benefit and negative consequences of what can happen to borrowers, sometimes depending what the money is used for. In the case of football, not just Rovers, but the whole industry, for many years it has become the norm for Clubs to borrow beyond their income which can be for some, as we have seen, a recipe for disaster. Specifically about Rovers, the Club has now borrowed somewhere approaching £20 million, and here is the rub, had the money been borrowed for capital projects such as for a training ground, a new stadium, or stadium improvements - no problem as that should have improved the value of the Club. But our Club has borrowed money mostly for day to day expenditure, and hence the Club is poorer - I hope you see the difference? I acknowledge that this is a common problem generally among football clubs in this country but just because some do it does not make it right for us to do it too. Especially when interest is added. There are exceptions, of course, where the Club's owners write off the loans, as per in the case of our near neighbours, but in our case the owners have secured the loan, which for them makes sense, but in my view could render our club vulnerable while the Club continues to make losses. I hope I am wrong. But we shareholders will soon find out at the AGM. So how many foreign bank owning "billionaires" did you arrange loans for in your 35 year career? As far as the AGM do you seriously think that's going to take place any time soon given the country is now virtually in lock down. Unsure what you mean by your first sentence and guess you are just being sarcastic? But if you are serious I will just say it is unusual if you do business in America not to meet the very wealthy. As far as the AGM the Club auditors will be required to present Accounts to shareholders on time this year, unlike last year when they were late. And they should, of course, be delivered as usual by post or email to shareholders before the meeting.
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Post by knowall on Mar 20, 2020 10:09:35 GMT
Yes I agree Knowall. Don’t know much about the detailed finances of us as you do, but being an interest free loan it will effectively be a means to enable clubs to overcome the cash flow problems that arise out of no matches. In other words it will replace the income that won’t be coming from matches. When football does resume clubs will be expected, I presume, to repay the original loan without having to pay interest. As we will have had a long time without football the gates may be quite high and so produce more income than it would have done. Seems a very fair way of doing it and you’d have to be ultra-critical of the EFL to think it wasn’t a sensible move. I’m always very critical of the EFL but on this occasion I think we should give credit where it’s due. UTG! According to MS earlier Rovers haven't decided whether they are going to take the interest free loan or not, assuming the ALQ's can already get access to finance at a low interest rate anyway then there maybe no attraction in borrowing from the EFL. The other payment is apparently just the usual monthly payments being made early so won't lead to anymore borrowing. I think you miss the point about the interest free loan offered by the EFL, while the Al-Qadi's will have access to low interest rate finance, they charge the Football Club at a premium rate for the money they are lending to us.
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Post by knowall on Mar 19, 2020 15:42:41 GMT
The EFL have now supplied a breakdown of the figures between the various leagues: "Under the terms of the relief fund, Championship clubs will receive their remaining £800,000 award payment from the Premier League on Thursday. In addition, they will be able to apply for a £584,000 interest-free loan. For League One clubs the figures are £250,000 and £183,000, and for League Two sides they are £164,000 and £120,000." Just short of £450K in total should, you'd hope, see us though the next few months, although Knowall will no doubt be gutted by this newsSorry to disappoint you Topper, but as the £250,000 is money that will eventually be due to the Club, paying it now is an excellent move and should be applauded - which I do, especially if it allows staff to keep their jobs. The £183,000 is a loan but as it is interest free then it will also be helpful in what are exceptional circumstances. Add the confirmation today that Wael Al-Qadi is to pay staff wages himself this month - also generous, especially if that is also interest free. Perhaps, in view of your comment here and previously, I should explain that my view on our Club's finances is fashioned by the fact that I spent the final 35 years of my business career providing loans. Consequently, I have seen the benefit and negative consequences of what can happen to borrowers, sometimes depending what the money is used for. In the case of football, not just Rovers, but the whole industry, for many years it has become the norm for Clubs to borrow beyond their income which can be for some, as we have seen, a recipe for disaster. Specifically about Rovers, the Club has now borrowed somewhere approaching £20 million, and here is the rub, had the money been borrowed for capital projects such as for a training ground, a new stadium, or stadium improvements - no problem as that should have improved the value of the Club. But our Club has borrowed money mostly for day to day expenditure, and hence the Club is poorer - I hope you see the difference? I acknowledge that this is a common problem generally among football clubs in this country but just because some do it does not make it right for us to do it too. Especially when interest is added. There are exceptions, of course, where the Club's owners write off the loans, as per in the case of our near neighbours, but in our case the owners have secured the loan, which for them makes sense, but in my view could render our club vulnerable while the Club continues to make losses. I hope I am wrong. But we shareholders will soon find out at the AGM.
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Post by knowall on Mar 18, 2020 14:01:56 GMT
Atteyo, Garland, Cheesely ( good friend) and Gery Gow were all players I’d have liked in our team although I never saw Atteyo play due to my age John Atyeo was a good footballer in that era (after all he did play for England 6 times and scored 5 goals) , and after he retired he was a regular at Twerton watching the Rovers. He was a quiet giant.
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Post by knowall on Mar 16, 2020 17:54:54 GMT
From my background in secondary banking I would guess that the Al-Qadi family are at the very least 'comfortable' compared with many others, and I would also assume that they are very astute people who will have a different perspective on the current crisis than most. My experience is that bankers are more adept to changing tack from a deficit to a profitable situation - why 'plough more money into a losing situation when there is an opportunity to make money elsewhere?' Incidentally, to your point about figures, wages to players and staff in recent years has been £5,000,000 to £6,000,000 as confirmed by accounts lodged at Companies House. £5m p.a. is around £400K p.m. so not the £500K/£600K you quoted but that figure includes bar staff etc who are probably on zero hours contracts, plus the cub are already losing £200K+ p.m. whether we play or not, which suggests the figure of £200K/£250K for losing the 4 games might well be quite accurate. I can't see the ALQ's will be throwing in the towel over or putting us into Admin over just another £250K loss. I really do not understand where you are coming from? The cost of wages has risen from £5m to £6m to £?last year (rising each year) but I confess I had forgotten how many thousands the bar staff earn per hour! Plus the loss is not per game, but loss per week which is running at £67000 per week on recent figures but that includes an income which will not be there for the time ahead. I am sure Martyn Starnes will have the figures at his finger tips which by now will probably be bitten down to the flesh!
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Post by knowall on Mar 16, 2020 15:24:03 GMT
Very commendable Topper to pay whatever you can to help the Club and thereby Dwane Sports. But,I think you will need to donate more than you realise as the Club costs around £600,000/700,000 per month to function and I am not sure how much you and other well meaning gasheads would be able to contribute to cover that amount? OK, I accept saving on food, transport, security etc will reduce that figure if there are no matches, but even if all 6000 of us (true gasheads) paid in £10 per week that would only raise at the most, half that amount. You say ' if Hani can't plough more money' and I am not sure why you should suggest that? Perhaps you know something? As for priorities, surely the future of BRFC should be among the priorities of the Al-Qadi's?, but if not, and they genuinely do care about BRFC then it would surely be an option to pass the Club on to some others who might wish, and be able, to help out? That, after all, is exactly what Mr Higgs and his co- directors did a few years ago rather than allowing the club (business) to suffer hardship or even fold. I've no idea what the ALQ's financial situation is in their home land, have you? When the likes of BA in the UK say they might have to go into Admin anything is surely now possible. Although uur UK banks seem, so far, to be unaffected by CV so hopefully that's also the case in Jordan, although I'd imagine the ALQ's tourist enterprise is taking an hammering. Pretty sure I've said this already but who in their right minds is going to buy a football club at the moment, even if the ALQ's decided they had to sell? We clearly don't need £600K+ just to function as that's turnover not just expenditure on players wages etc. From my background in secondary banking I would guess that the Al-Qadi family are at the very least 'comfortable' compared with many others, and I would also assume that they are very astute people who will have a different perspective on the current crisis than most. My experience is that bankers are more adept to changing tack from a deficit to a profitable situation - why 'plough more money into a losing situation when there is an opportunity to make money elsewhere?' Incidentally, to your point about figures, wages to players and staff in recent years has been £5,000,000 to £6,000,000 as confirmed by accounts lodged at Companies House.
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Post by knowall on Mar 16, 2020 14:46:35 GMT
Very commendable Topper to pay whatever you can to help the Club and thereby Dwane Sports. But,I think you will need to donate more than you realise as the Club costs around £600,000/700,000 per month to function and I am not sure how much you and other well meaning gasheads would be able to contribute to cover that amount? OK, I accept saving on food, transport, security etc will reduce that figure if there are no matches, but even if all 6000 of us (true gasheads) paid in £10 per week that would only raise at the most, half that amount. You say ' if Hani can't plough more money' and I am not sure why you should suggest that? Perhaps you know something? As for priorities, surely the future of BRFC should be among the priorities of the Al-Qadi's?, but if not, and they genuinely do care about BRFC then it would surely be an option to pass the Club on to some others who might wish, and be able, to help out? That, after all, is exactly what Mr Higgs and his co- directors did a few years ago rather than allowing the club (business) to suffer hardship or even fold. I would imagine in light of current events they have an asset that no one would pay much for. They at least need their loan back held against the ground but I would imagine that value would exceed the value of the club so we’re probably stuck with each other. I’m guessing all contracts expiring in June will be allowed to end. If players are then in hardship the PFA will have to step in. I think it’ll be the same for most 3rd and 4th division clubs. Anything else would be financial suicide. Then a big rebuilding job when things resume in god knows when. Interesting - you say 'they have an asset that no one would pay much for' and then 'they at least need their loan back' - but if that is the case, and assuming until football returns it will bring them no income but still cost something. (Some staff are on longer contracts - the manager for instance is alleged to have secured a 30 month contract). Added to which (if) when football returns there will be an up front additional cost, is it really in their interest to go on funding an empty stadium rather than cut their losses now? What a dilemma!
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Post by knowall on Mar 16, 2020 12:34:08 GMT
Stevenage chairman Phil Wallace hopes to make young players and other club resources available to help elderly people in the community during the coronavirus pandemic.
It is reported that over-70s will soon be told to stay at home for an extended period as Britain battles the spread of the virus.
Even though Wallace concedes the Sky Bet League Two club may struggle to survive an extended break from playing, he is determined to do what he can to help the most vulnerable in the local area.
“Whilst I understand the logic behind flattening the peak curve, so that the NHS are able to treat more people with the limited ICU beds and equipment available, this will undoubtedly cause anguish for those folks that can’t use the internet, have no relatives and no way of ordering supplies or obtaining meals,” he told the club’s official website.
“We have always prided ourselves on being a community club and now it’s time to show what that means.
“Starting immediately, we will start to work on the logistics of obtaining details of folks that will need help.
“We have kitchens we are not using, we have young players that can’t play football and we have an army of youngsters that, if asked and organised properly, would be willing to help distribute meals and obtain supplies.
“I intend to work with CEO Alex Tunbridge to make this happen. To be honest, we have no idea how the club can survive for long whilst paying players and staff with no income, but some of these folks have nobody to help them and we will make sure we’re there for them.
“If that means we cook food and prepare snacks, that is what we’ll do. If it is getting essential supplies to them, that is what we’ll do. We will be there for these people.”
Article with thanks to AOL
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Post by knowall on Mar 16, 2020 12:13:12 GMT
Why don't we "play" the matches over the phone by tossing a coin 3 times? if one team wins the first two tosses, they win the fixture and get the 3 points, if both sides win 1 of the first 2 tosses each, it's a draw. Goals could be recorded by guessing additional tosses afterwards. 1 goal per correct guess. Good job not in same league as West Ham. Great idea, has the basis of a TV quiz game
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Post by knowall on Mar 16, 2020 12:02:30 GMT
Whilst I understand and sympathise with most of what is contained in this thread, I think it should be remembered that BRFC is a Limited Company, just like thousands of other companies in the UK. Many, of which will face a similar lack of income in the coming months. The responsibility for keeping the company trading is normally shouldered by the major shareholders and sometimes also the employees. But certainly not the customers. At times of financial stress, the major shareholders are expected to support the company by putting in funds, and in extreme circumstances and often to protect jobs well-paid employees have been known to agree to a reduced wage. In the football world, directors and shareholders will be reviewing the current situation, and most owners (shareholders) will know that it is their responsibility to ensure the company stays in a fit financial state to continue trading whenever this crisis ends. They should, and will, take the necessary steps to ensure their club stays alive. In the case of BRFC the major shareholder is Dwane Sports who will have to step up to the mark and input sufficient funds to keep the company alive and 'kicking'. The PFA will no doubt have an input as to what if any, part the players have to play in any financial decisions about reducing their contracted pay. Many football supporters will face their own problems during this crisis and some will likely lose their jobs. The task, therefore, falls on the Board of Dwane Sports and the Directors of BRFC to solve this likely lack of income and whilst many might like to, it is not the job of supporters, who are simply customers (as they are often reminded). So if Hani states because of the CV issues in Jordan he's decided he can't plough anymore money into Rovers, you'd then be content to see the club go under just on a matter of principle that the owners should always bail out a Ltd company in their time of need? Just like Bolton's owners didn't do recently. What about the £150K+(?) your mates are sat on in the SC, isn't this really a time they should be looking to support the club and offering to support them with that money, even if it's only by way of a short term loan, or is JC/KM keeping that in reserve for when they have to pay their solicitors bills? Perhaps you can supply a link to where Wael or MS has ever called fans "customers" as I can't recall either ever doing that, I sense only your other mate Hamer as ever suggested that's the case, although surely we've no worries anyway as good news is coming in October, not sure which year though. As I've posted earlier on this thread we really need a statement from Wael/the ALQ's advising if they are prepared to support the club over the next few months, if they aren't then I'll support Gassy with whatever money I can afford to keep Rovers until we can play again, if you won't then I'd question whether you are a true Gashead. Very commendable Topper to pay whatever you can to help the Club and thereby Dwane Sports. But,I think you will need to donate more than you realise as the Club costs around £600,000/700,000 per month to function and I am not sure how much you and other well meaning gasheads would be able to contribute to cover that amount? OK, I accept saving on food, transport, security etc will reduce that figure if there are no matches, but even if all 6000 of us (true gasheads) paid in £10 per week that would only raise at the most, half that amount. You say ' if Hani can't plough more money' and I am not sure why you should suggest that? Perhaps you know something? As for priorities, surely the future of BRFC should be among the priorities of the Al-Qadi's?, but if not, and they genuinely do care about BRFC then it would surely be an option to pass the Club on to some others who might wish, and be able, to help out? That, after all, is exactly what Mr Higgs and his co- directors did a few years ago rather than allowing the club (business) to suffer hardship or even fold.
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Post by knowall on Mar 15, 2020 17:52:25 GMT
Whilst I understand and sympathise with most of what is contained in this thread, I think it should be remembered that BRFC is a Limited Company, just like thousands of other companies in the UK. Many, of which will face a similar lack of income in the coming months. The responsibility for keeping the company trading is normally shouldered by the major shareholders and sometimes also the employees. But certainly not the customers. At times of financial stress, the major shareholders are expected to support the company by putting in funds, and in extreme circumstances and often to protect jobs well-paid employees have been known to agree to a reduced wage. In the football world, directors and shareholders will be reviewing the current situation, and most owners (shareholders) will know that it is their responsibility to ensure the company stays in a fit financial state to continue trading whenever this crisis ends. They should, and will, take the necessary steps to ensure their club stays alive. In the case of BRFC the major shareholder is Dwane Sports who will have to step up to the mark and input sufficient funds to keep the company alive and 'kicking'. The PFA will no doubt have an input as to what if any, part the players have to play in any financial decisions about reducing their contracted pay. Many football supporters will face their own problems during this crisis and some will likely lose their jobs. The task, therefore, falls on the Board of Dwane Sports and the Directors of BRFC to solve this likely lack of income and whilst many might like to, it is not the job of supporters, who are simply customers (as they are often reminded). So if Hani states because of the CV issues in Jordan he's decided he can't plough anymore money into Rovers, you'd then be content to see the club go under just on a matter of principle that the owners should always bail out a Ltd company in their time of need? Just like Bolton's owners didn't do recently. What about the £150K+(?) your mates are sat on in the SC, isn't this really a time they should be looking to support the club and offering to support them with that money, even if it's only by way of a short term loan, or is JC/KM keeping that in reserve for when they have to pay their solicitors bills? Perhaps you can supply a link to where Wael or MS has ever called fans "customers" as I can't recall either ever doing that, I sense only your other mate Hamer as ever suggested that's the case, although surely we've no worries anyway as good news is coming in October, not sure which year though. As I've posted earlier on this thread we really need a statement from Wael/the ALQ's advising if they are prepared to support the club over the next few months, if they aren't then I'll support Gassy with whatever money I can afford to keep Rovers until we can play again, if you won't then I'd question whether you are a true Gashead. So your logic is - 'if Boots or your local shop is unable to pay it's bills, we should all donate to keep it going and save the shareholders of those businesses - even if they are substantially better off the you? I hear Virgin Airline is worried too - should we or Richard Branson bail them out? Regarding the use of the term 'customers' - what would you call us supporters now? - we have no control or authority! But we do buy the product. I agree that the owners should issue a statement, if for no other reason than to assure season ticket holders that they know we have paid for something we may not receive. Incidentally, I do have many pals who are connected with the SC, as I am sure you do, but I would not be so presumptive to suggest what they should be doing especially as I am not a member of that excellent organisation who have rowed in over the years many times when the Football Club needed help. Oh, and by the way, I have not spoken to Mr Hamer for probably ten months, and that was at a meeting as a member of the Presidents Club Committee when assuring Wael Al-Qadi that the PC would continue to support him and his family and we would be continue electing his father to the position of President of the PC. And maybe finally, if Hani Al-Qadi is unable to keep the football club alive financially then he should do what the previous Board did and put the Club up for sale? and thereby protect his family fortune.
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Post by knowall on Mar 15, 2020 13:17:56 GMT
Whilst I understand and sympathise with most of what is contained in this thread, I think it should be remembered that BRFC is a Limited Company, just like thousands of other companies in the UK. Many, of which will face a similar lack of income in the coming months.
The responsibility for keeping the company trading is normally shouldered by the major shareholders and sometimes also the employees. But certainly not the customers.
At times of financial stress, the major shareholders are expected to support the company by putting in funds, and in extreme circumstances and often to protect jobs well-paid employees have been known to agree to a reduced wage.
In the football world, directors and shareholders will be reviewing the current situation, and most owners (shareholders) will know that it is their responsibility to ensure the company stays in a fit financial state to continue trading whenever this crisis ends. They should, and will, take the necessary steps to ensure their club stays alive.
In the case of BRFC the major shareholder is Dwane Sports who will have to step up to the mark and input sufficient funds to keep the company alive and 'kicking'.
The PFA will no doubt have an input as to what if any, part the players have to play in any financial decisions about reducing their contracted pay.
Many football supporters will face their own problems during this crisis and some will likely lose their jobs.
The task, therefore, falls on the Board of Dwane Sports and the Directors of BRFC to solve this likely lack of income and whilst many might like to, it is not the job of supporters, who are simply customers (as they are often reminded).
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Post by knowall on Mar 4, 2020 18:53:26 GMT
Unfortunately, it is a fact that some 20 years ago Roy Redman (a director at the time) was in discussion with a view to buy and convert the Brabazon hanger into a stadium for Rovers - they were not interested then, but how forward-looking was Roy?
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Post by knowall on Mar 3, 2020 20:12:04 GMT
1. I never make gusses2. As suggested we can go into Div 2 for a manager where 60% are not worth going after and the other 40% would not come here. 3. Name one manager not employed would want to work here-we sacked DC-GC left (thank god) and now we want to sack BG after we took him on based on a long term project. Get in the real world -he's staying unless he gets to the point he decides to go due to the amount of back stabbing that gose on on here You are right to not make gusses, there are plenty of managers out there, but they will be more expensive than BG who is here because he was cheap which is sure to be the way from now on at BRFC.
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