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Post by Hugh Jarsole on Jul 18, 2020 13:48:10 GMT
Oh dear another backward step Everyone harps on about how much better it was with coughlin, a man who showed no commitment and at the first sign walked out on the club for a team that was going nowhere and went nowhere, he claimed it was because his vision wasn't the same as directors... pretty sure it was more to do with the club being a stones throw from where he lived, he used us as a stepping stone for his career development, if he was the miracle manager everybody claims he is lets see where his club is at the end of next season
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Post by justin blue on Jul 18, 2020 14:22:15 GMT
Ben obviousely has self belief otherwise he would not still be here and he doesn't think he needs an assistant with managerial experience. He clearly has his own vision of what he want's to build at rovers and wants an assistant rather than a mentor. These guys have worked in some top clubs they are young and enthusiastic and bring fresh ideas. This club has always been willing to gamble on managers and step into the unknown it's what clubs like ours have to do, The great thing is when they defy the odds and produce something special. Who's to say this won't happen with these guys?
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 18, 2020 14:32:41 GMT
I think you need to explain where you're coming from with that comment, until yesterday BG didn't have an assistant so how can employing KM be a backwards step? BG's clearly decided he wants to employ somebody who he's worked with in the past and Wael's backed him instead of taking the cheaper option and telling him he has to promote from within. Don’t bother Topper, we all know Midlandgas has got previous form with this. I know, I'd just like to see the logic behind his comments this time, although I guess it's just a case of slagging the club off from Shropshire rather than any real logic. I assume Grant's signing his linked to JM's appointment so that's a positive start.
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Post by neilv93 on Jul 18, 2020 15:50:21 GMT
Must say I'm surprised he didn't go with a more experienced head but, that said, seems like he trusts Mesure and they view the game in the same way so more power to BG! I would definitely expect us to be producing, developing and improving young players (our own and those signed) under their tutelage and I expect to see some positive football.
BG has a blank page to work with now and ultimately the buck will stop with him if last season's disappoints trickle into 20/21 but I'm feeling positive and optimistic about the Garner-Mesure duo. Let's see what further signings they bring to club but I wouldn't be surprised to see some PL youngsters rocking up at the Mem on loan.
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Post by Gas Go Marching In on Jul 18, 2020 16:16:16 GMT
I'm going to sit on the fence with this appointment. Sounds highly thought of, for Chelsea to poach him he must hav something about him which is good, will also have some good contacts on the youth scene (along with Garner). The cynic in me asks why Chelsea wouldn't want to do more to keep hold of him if he is that amazing. And he is another inexperienced coach like Garner. We'll have a lot of young players so we should be OK with them, it's mixing that with experience, leadership and managing those older, wiser heads in the dressing room. Managing those players will be what makes or breaks them.
But I do get the model we are trying to use. If we can improve these young players then the club could be in a very healthy position with selling players on for profit etc.
Whether it will be successful is another question though, and the proof will be in the pudding.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 16:50:55 GMT
You’d guess so . One in .... one out. Personally I’ve no problem with another highly rated young coach coming in , if that’s the guy our manager feels he can work well and effectively with. There’s a theme building at the club , young hungry players led by highly rated modern thinking young coaches. Will it work ? Furk knows but I’d rather give this way a try than employ washed up dinosaurs who have failed elsewhere multiple times . Experience isn’t the be all and end all . We have to think differently and set out our own niche way of going about things. It might just work ! 2 wins in 20 suggests it probably won’t.
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Post by warehamgas on Jul 18, 2020 17:03:55 GMT
Clearly this appointment should be seen as another positive step in re-building the club. Despite all the usual detractors, which is as predictable as it is tiresome on this forum, Ben Garner was without an assistant and has now had the opportunity and funds to appoint one. Again, thanks to Wael for providing those funds. He seems a good fit, and although I understand why many of you are calling for an experienced head, this is down to a perceived mentality of the norms or expectations of this type of role. But who are we to speak for the manager in stating what is needed? It is entirely up to the manager to pick his own assistant and coaching staff and naturally he will pick them on the basis of what he deems necessary, probably based on shared values and football philosophy but most importantly, the ability to work effectively together. An assistant is a most personal of positions and only the manager can assess how well he thinks that relationship can work - it is not surprising that these appointments are often made to friends or previous colleagues, and often result in a continuing relationship whenever managers move on to a new club. I am personally very enthusiastic about the future of the club under Ben Garner. We have often called for a root and branch re-building of the club and ths has to be done throughout the club's whole structure. This is what we are now getting - and this process must be allowed to continue. UTG! Good post. Yes I agree. BG has had a tough time but Wael obviously has trust and as he is now enthusiastically financing us that will be good enough for me at the moment. What I do like about what’s happened over the past 4 months is the way everything that’s happened has followed on from each previous step. The great sadness for the AQ family resulted in a re-calibrating if the financial position and Wael has taken charge. This has resulted in the training ground starting almost immediately following this. There seems to be a greater impetus around the ground and the changes in the boardroom appear to have given a boost to everything. Starnes appears to have a solid approach to doing things and slowly but surely the big things (I know not the ground yet) are getting put in place. With the younger signings being made I can almost see a plan, a philosophy emerging from what’s happening. I hope it works obviously. This AM role for Garner’s friend is just another brick put into place. Whilst I can see what some mean by lacking the experience what I do like is the idea that the ideas that Wael has always championed, young players, development squad to make out own players, training ground, building from the bottom are happening. And if the management system doesn’t work you can appoint others but maintain the philosophy and hope someone else can be successful. As with players, managers and AMs come with no guarantees you just hope that it works. You don’t always have to start from the beginning. Well done all concerned and welcome to BRFC John and Josh. UTG!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 17:04:51 GMT
All this bigging up of academy football- do they do open top bus parades for the winners of the academy leagues now or something? It’s a level of football that bears no real relevance to modern senior football, not least because so many of the players at that level turn out not to be good enough for the full pro game. For every Zaha, Garner and the other lad will have presided over 10 flops but nobody mentions the numerous flops and instead pick up only on the one or two who made it. I despair that so much stock can be put into that level of football. It also seems very weird to me that Wael can spend all that money to clear the debts and yet install such a Poundland management team, no experience of senior football between them and it’s not even like Garner has turned out to be a pleasant surprise- the initial omens have been pretty poor with one of the worst runs in the club’s history, nay, football league history suggesting that there is a massive step up in tactics and theory between coaching some kids on a park and directing a team of men. It’s really frustrating that off the pitch we *finally* look like getting our sh** together but on it we could be in for a very hard season feel free to bring this post back up though if I’m proved wrong- I don’t think I will be!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 17:09:28 GMT
Just to add It’s also surprising perhaps that Wael has not insisted on a full time experienced coach as a condition of the run Garner went on last season. As an audition for the job it wasn’t good and there seems to be a desperate need for a Lennie and Trolls type setup if we are going to persist with Garner. Perhaps Coppell is still helping out but his name does not inspire much seeing as he has been out of jobs in English football for a decade since walking out on City. I’m sure we could do better for an older head to give Garner some coaching on tactics and game management.
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Post by simon1883 on Jul 18, 2020 17:13:31 GMT
All this bigging up of academy football- do they do open top bus parades for the winners of the academy leagues now or something? It’s a level of football that bears no real relevance to modern senior football, not least because so many of the players at that level turn out not to be good enough for the full pro game. For every Zaha, Garner and the other lad will have presided over 10 flops but nobody mentions the numerous flops and instead pick up only on the one or two who made it. I despair that so much stock can be put into that level of football. It also seems very weird to me that Wael can spend all that money to clear the debts and yet install such a Poundland management team, no experience of senior football between them and it’s not even like Garner has turned out to be a pleasant surprise- the initial omens have been pretty poor with one of the worst runs in the club’s history, nay, football league history suggesting that there is a massive step up in tactics and theory between coaching some kids on a park and directing a team of men. It’s really frustrating that off the pitch we *finally* look like getting our sh** together but on it we could be in for a very hard season feel free to bring this post back up though if I’m proved wrong- I don’t think I will be! Ultimately, those flops will be the ones that come to use. That’s how I see this working. There will be loads that are not quite ready for PL football or just didn’t get the lucky break. I don’t see it as a bad plan as most of the filtering would have already been down for them to have made it to a prem academy in the first place.
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Post by Topper Gas on Jul 18, 2020 17:34:07 GMT
All this bigging up of academy football- do they do open top bus parades for the winners of the academy leagues now or something? It’s a level of football that bears no real relevance to modern senior football, not least because so many of the players at that level turn out not to be good enough for the full pro game. For every Zaha, Garner and the other lad will have presided over 10 flops but nobody mentions the numerous flops and instead pick up only on the one or two who made it. I despair that so much stock can be put into that level of football. It also seems very weird to me that Wael can spend all that money to clear the debts and yet install such a Poundland management team, no experience of senior football between them and it’s not even like Garner has turned out to be a pleasant surprise- the initial omens have been pretty poor with one of the worst runs in the club’s history, nay, football league history suggesting that there is a massive step up in tactics and theory between coaching some kids on a park and directing a team of men. It’s really frustrating that off the pitch we *finally* look like getting our sh** together but on it we could be in for a very hard season feel free to bring this post back up though if I’m proved wrong- I don’t think I will be! Blackpool's new owners seems to be following a similar path as they appointed Liverpool's U23 Manager late last season. We all hated Coughlin's football even if he got the results so I can see where Wael's coming from appointing a young management team who want to play football the "right way". My concern is if it's so easy to turn the likes of Grant into £m players why isn't every L1 side already trying to do it, only really Oxford and Pompey have had any real success with such a model, and they've both got fairly experienced management teams. Wycombe have had a fantastic season but so far I've not seen any suggestions that any of their young players are going to be sold for £m+, likewise Coventry. I'm with GGMI I'm sitting on the fence as the end of last season was a shocker and you sense the players didn't have a clue what they were supposed to be doing.
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Post by chilly1883 on Jul 18, 2020 17:56:44 GMT
All this experienced head, if he believes in what he’s telling the players, fair play to him, most of these so called experienced managers are now behind the times! Maybe it’s time for youth! Why not at least them have a go ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 18:01:08 GMT
All this bigging up of academy football- do they do open top bus parades for the winners of the academy leagues now or something? It’s a level of football that bears no real relevance to modern senior football, not least because so many of the players at that level turn out not to be good enough for the full pro game. For every Zaha, Garner and the other lad will have presided over 10 flops but nobody mentions the numerous flops and instead pick up only on the one or two who made it. I despair that so much stock can be put into that level of football. It also seems very weird to me that Wael can spend all that money to clear the debts and yet install such a Poundland management team, no experience of senior football between them and it’s not even like Garner has turned out to be a pleasant surprise- the initial omens have been pretty poor with one of the worst runs in the club’s history, nay, football league history suggesting that there is a massive step up in tactics and theory between coaching some kids on a park and directing a team of men. It’s really frustrating that off the pitch we *finally* look like getting our sh** together but on it we could be in for a very hard season feel free to bring this post back up though if I’m proved wrong- I don’t think I will be! Blackpool's new owners seems to be following a similar path as they appointed Liverpool's U23 Manager late last season. We all hated Coughlin's football even if he got the results so I can see where Wael's coming from appointing a young management team who want to play football the "right way". My concern is if it's so easy to turn the likes of Grant into £m players why isn't every L1 side already trying to do it, only really Oxford and Pompey have had any real success with such a model, and they've both got fairly experienced management teams. Wycombe have had a fantastic season but so far I've not seen any suggestions that any of their young players are going to be sold for £m+, likewise Coventry. I'm with GGMI I'm sitting on the fence as the end of last season was a shocker and you sense the players didn't have a clue what they were supposed to be doing. Well yes that’s it isn’t it- as I said when Garner was appointed why isn’t anyone else already taking this path? Crewe has a number of successful academy products back in the day but they have never been any more successful than a tier 3/4 outfit. It seems to be a tried and tested route to success in the lower leagues: you need older pros mostly with a sprinkling of youngsters. I can’t see putting an academy side on the pitch coached by an academy set of coaches in a physical league full of men ending too well for us. I really fear for us this season.
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Post by piratejames on Jul 18, 2020 19:05:32 GMT
Just to add It’s also surprising perhaps that Wael has not insisted on a full time experienced coach as a condition of the run Garner went on last season. As an audition for the job it wasn’t good and there seems to be a desperate need for a Lennie and Trolls type setup if we are going to persist with Garner. Perhaps Coppell is still helping out but his name does not inspire much seeing as he has been out of jobs in English football for a decade since walking out on City. I’m sure we could do better for an older head to give Garner some coaching on tactics and game management. If you don’t think that there is multiple older experienced managers that not only BG is talking to, but every manager is talking to then your mad. Just because Steve coppell is something you’ve heard of doesn’t mean that’s it, he worked at Crystal Palace for years, do you think he hasn’t spoken to the past managers there? Your stuck in this thinking that you HAVE to have experience for it to work, yes it’s worked having that system before but it has with a fresh young approach as well. When guardiola took over at Barcelona his assistant was in his 30’s, that didn’t go well at all. This isn’t a dig because everyone can have there opinion but this whole last seasons audition didn’t go well; what the audition where the team isn’t something you’ve put together, a team that has just had the shock of there careers (4th and manager walks away), selection of fan base that no matter who gets appointed it isn’t good enough, not to mention the family problems he went through, if that’s the audition then fair play for taking it in the first place.
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 18, 2020 19:12:45 GMT
Blackpool's new owners seems to be following a similar path as they appointed Liverpool's U23 Manager late last season. We all hated Coughlin's football even if he got the results so I can see where Wael's coming from appointing a young management team who want to play football the "right way". My concern is if it's so easy to turn the likes of Grant into £m players why isn't every L1 side already trying to do it, only really Oxford and Pompey have had any real success with such a model, and they've both got fairly experienced management teams. Wycombe have had a fantastic season but so far I've not seen any suggestions that any of their young players are going to be sold for £m+, likewise Coventry. I'm with GGMI I'm sitting on the fence as the end of last season was a shocker and you sense the players didn't have a clue what they were supposed to be doing. Well yes that’s it isn’t it- as I said when Garner was appointed why isn’t anyone else already taking this path? Crewe has a number of successful academy products back in the day but they have never been any more successful than a tier 3/4 outfit. It seems to be a tried and tested route to success in the lower leagues: you need older pros mostly with a sprinkling of youngsters. I can’t see putting an academy side on the pitch coached by an academy set of coaches in a physical league full of men ending too well for us. I really fear for us this season. You conveniently fail to mention we already have plenty of experience with the likes Anssi, Little, Ogogo, Upson, Rodman, JCH etc and have been heavily linked with another League One side's 28-year-old captain and a 27-year-old with League One experience.
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Post by Gaswood on Jul 18, 2020 19:22:05 GMT
Well yes that’s it isn’t it- as I said when Garner was appointed why isn’t anyone else already taking this path? Crewe has a number of successful academy products back in the day but they have never been any more successful than a tier 3/4 outfit. It seems to be a tried and tested route to success in the lower leagues: you need older pros mostly with a sprinkling of youngsters. I can’t see putting an academy side on the pitch coached by an academy set of coaches in a physical league full of men ending too well for us. I really fear for us this season. You conveniently fail to mention we already have plenty of experience with the likes Anssi, Little, Ogogo, Upson, Rodman, JCH etc and have been heavily linked with another League One side's 28-year-old captain and a 27-year-old with League One experience. Stop speaking sense and quoting facts again! That’s not allowed!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 19:26:19 GMT
You conveniently fail to mention we already have plenty of experience with the likes Anssi, Little, Ogogo, Upson, Rodman, JCH etc and have been heavily linked with another League One side's 28-year-old captain and a 27-year-old with League One experience. Stop speaking sense and quoting facts again! That’s not allowed!! He won’t change the minds of the ‘glass completely empty and bone dry’ brigade !!!
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Post by piratejames on Jul 18, 2020 19:36:23 GMT
What bugs me in all this is that the people that are on here saying bad decision, garners crap, no experience, think and react as if the people that are positive about this news are sat at home with fresh Ben garner tattoos, a picture of Wael on there wall( after recent news it’s not a bad shout)lol, the people that are being positive about this news are just simply giving it a go, no one is sat at there right now thinking BG had a good start, he didn’t that’s a fact. But if clubs sacked managers after a poor run or bad start every time then there would be multiple managers every season at every club. Either that or your very lucky and win everything all the time. Life is a lot easier if you enter stuff positively. So cheer up and stop moaning
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Jul 18, 2020 20:04:57 GMT
What bugs me in all this is that the people that are on here saying bad decision, garners crap, no experience, think and react as if the people that are positive about this news are sat at home with fresh Ben garner tattoos, a picture of Wael on there wall( after recent news it’s not a bad shout)lol, the people that are being positive about this news are just simply giving it a go, no one is sat at there right now thinking BG had a good start, he didn’t that’s a fact. But if clubs sacked managers after a poor run or bad start every time then there would be multiple managers every season at every club. Either that or your very lucky and win everything all the time. Life is a lot easier if you enter stuff positively. So cheer up and stop moaning I can get copies made up of the picture of Wael on my wall and tell you where I got my Ben Garner tattoo done if you want?
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Post by piratejames on Jul 18, 2020 20:12:50 GMT
What bugs me in all this is that the people that are on here saying bad decision, garners crap, no experience, think and react as if the people that are positive about this news are sat at home with fresh Ben garner tattoos, a picture of Wael on there wall( after recent news it’s not a bad shout)lol, the people that are being positive about this news are just simply giving it a go, no one is sat at there right now thinking BG had a good start, he didn’t that’s a fact. But if clubs sacked managers after a poor run or bad start every time then there would be multiple managers every season at every club. Either that or your very lucky and win everything all the time. Life is a lot easier if you enter stuff positively. So cheer up and stop moaning I can get copies made up of the picture of Wael on my wall and tell you where I got my Ben Garner tattoo done if you want? Secretly I was just waiting for people to say that’s exactly what they’ve got and then I can come clean with the new whole back piece of BG’s face lol
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