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Post by Jomo on Dec 15, 2020 19:33:27 GMT
Exactly, it's not about letting those that would be unlikely to die from it just get on with their lives as normal without worrying about it. The more people that have it, badly affected or not, then the more vulnerable people will contract it and the more overwhelmed our health service would become. Lack of understanding of this is just ignorance and the fact that so many people in this country take it lightly is the reason we will be under restrictions for a lot longer yet, sadly. q I didn’t say anything about that. I said: - our country mishandled the pandemic - The risk of death if you’re under 80 or seriously unwell Is minimal. People haven’t listened to what I said. It set off some sort of red flag. You said "I’d have thought anyone who looked at the data worldwide wouldn’t be fearful at all." Regardless of whether people are fearful for their own personal health (I'm fairly relaxed about my own health, but I'm fortunate that I don't believe I'm currently particularly vulnerable) most people would know people who are either vulnerable or potentially could be vulnerable. If you don't fear for them, then does that says something about your compassion (or lack of) for others? I'm not saying that everything should be locked tight, as I believe that economically we need to strike a sensible balance whilst maintaining caution and high standards of safety. This is easier said than done and I have seen far too often a large number of people everywhere that simply don't give a toss about protecting themselves or those around them. What I definitely do strongly believe is that people shouldn't treat it lightly, just because supposedly the risk to under 80's is minimal. But what are you saying exactly is a minimal risk? Dying? Because I certainly wouldn't want myself or anyone I know to be potentially hospitalised over anything, regardless of whether it ended up killing them or not. |
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yattongas
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Post by yattongas on Dec 15, 2020 19:49:56 GMT
Yesterday (my mate's step-Dad) died after being on a ventilator for 7 weeks after contracting COVID. He was in his mid-60's with no underlying health conditions. It's still out there and it's still deadly. *My uncle died 2 weeks ago from Covid*. *It had nothing to do with Covid*and everything to do with him being on deaths door already. I’m sorry you lost someone. I’m not doubting it’s a serious virus, it’s the complete farce we’ve seen. Vietnam for everyone’s reference has had 35 deaths out of 97 million (genuine stats by the way) Not sure why we’ve had 50k+ when we have a world class health service Average age of Covid death in the U.K. is 82 by the way, which is higher than life expectancy. |
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Post by Antonio Fargas on Dec 15, 2020 19:58:43 GMT
I think you're misunderstanding the point. No one is saying don't talk about it. They're saying be careful what you say. To correct your analogy, it wouldn't be not mentioning alcohol, it would be more like 'saying that alcohol is harmless would upset those whose relatives have died from alcoholism,' which is plainly a reasonable statement. But nobody said it was harmless, merely the chances of dieing are tiny which is correct.......or do we all have stick by the same narrative ? I'm not talking about whether it's harmless or not, I'm trying to convey to you why your analogy didn't make any sense. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 20:06:17 GMT
q I didn’t say anything about that. I said: - our country mishandled the pandemic - The risk of death if you’re under 80 or seriously unwell Is minimal. People haven’t listened to what I said. It set off some sort of red flag. You said "I’d have thought anyone who looked at the data worldwide wouldn’t be fearful at all." Regardless of whether people are fearful for their own personal health (I'm fairly relaxed about my own health, but I'm fortunate that I don't believe I'm currently particularly vulnerable) most people would know people who are either vulnerable or potentially could be vulnerable. If you don't fear for them, then does that says something about your compassion (or lack of) for others? I'm not saying that everything should be locked tight, as I believe that economically we need to strike a sensible balance whilst maintaining caution and high standards of safety. This is easier said than done and I have seen far too often a large number of people everywhere that simply don't give a toss about protecting themselves or those around them. What I definitely do strongly believe is that people shouldn't treat it lightly, just because supposedly the risk to under 80's is minimal. But what are you saying exactly is a minimal risk? Dying? Because I certainly wouldn't want myself or anyone I know to be potentially hospitalised over anything, regardless of whether it ended up killing them or not. Agree about striking a sensible balance. It will be interesting to see what the government/scientists do early next year. All the lockdowns have been about avoiding the NHS being overwhelmed, the majority of hospitalisations and deaths have been in the elderly age groups so will the government/scientists have the balls to drastically reduce restrictions once the 65+ and extremely vulnerable have had their jabs? When we get to that point (Hopefully soon if the regulators get the Oxford vaccine approved) I would want a complete change of emphasis where anyone who may feel vulnerable, ie they have a mild asthma or are overweight, will have to look after themselves and shield with everyone else being able to get back to normal. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 20:19:24 GMT
Behave ffs. Go and have a wander round the ICUs in this country, speak to the actual doctors treating people every day and then tell us all that it’s nothing to worry about. And the issue isn’t just death, my mate’s wife beat covid months ago but she can’t get out of bed because the after effects are continuing to rob her of her energy some 9 months later. Imagine the bill the country would face for long covid care if we just allowed it to run through the population? Seriously, you “it’s just a cold” people need to give your heads a serious wobble. Suggest you start having a word with donut loving brigade then, because obesity causes more deaths and is a far greater strain on the NHS than COVID ever will be How many cancer treatments have been cancelled due to fat people? If you’ve got figures on that I’d love to hear them. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 20:20:55 GMT
Stating facts is now dangerous bullshit...spoken like a true socialist.... And here’s another idiot ...☝️ Idiocy is proving to be as contagious as coronavirus these days |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 20:26:07 GMT
Exactly, it's not about letting those that would be unlikely to die from it just get on with their lives as normal without worrying about it. The more people that have it, badly affected or not, then the more vulnerable people will contract it and the more overwhelmed our health service would become. Lack of understanding of this is just ignorance and the fact that so many people in this country take it lightly is the reason we will be under restrictions for a lot longer yet, sadly. q I didn’t say anything about that. I said: - our country mishandled the pandemic - The risk of death if you’re under 80 or seriously unwell Is minimal. People haven’t listened to what I said. It set off some sort of red flag. It’s wound people up because while you might be sitting there shedding brain cells at a high rate of knots without a care in the world other people who are far more qualified to understand this stuff are working in hospitals and seeing the full devastation and/or losing otherwise healthy loved ones. The people I am aware of in every day life who think like you are the ones who haven’t been affected at all- they think it’s all a conspiracy because they don’t work in a hospital and don’t know anyone who has died so because it hasn’t happened to *them* it’s obviously all a joke and everyone else’s experience is invalid or part of some flaming conspiracy theory. Having that sort of attitude invalidates the experience of those who have suffered and is massively disrespectful and insulting. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 20:32:35 GMT
q I didn’t say anything about that. I said: - our country mishandled the pandemic - The risk of death if you’re under 80 or seriously unwell Is minimal. People haven’t listened to what I said. It set off some sort of red flag. You said "I’d have thought anyone who looked at the data worldwide wouldn’t be fearful at all." Regardless of whether people are fearful for their own personal health (I'm fairly relaxed about my own health, but I'm fortunate that I don't believe I'm currently particularly vulnerable) most people would know people who are either vulnerable or potentially could be vulnerable. If you don't fear for them, then does that says something about your compassion (or lack of) for others? I'm not saying that everything should be locked tight, as I believe that economically we need to strike a sensible balance whilst maintaining caution and high standards of safety. This is easier said than done and I have seen far too often a large number of people everywhere that simply don't give a toss about protecting themselves or those around them. What I definitely do strongly believe is that people shouldn't treat it lightly, just because supposedly the risk to under 80's is minimal. But what are you saying exactly is a minimal risk? Dying? Because I certainly wouldn't want myself or anyone I know to be potentially hospitalised over anything, regardless of whether it ended up killing them or not. It’s not just about dying - long covid is a known issue in that it exists and has 4 forms but we still don’t know that much about it, certainly not enough to just go by the death toll as the ultimate arbiter of what covid does to the system. There was also a report the other on the BBC site about visible changes to the lungs of covid survivors. Dying is not the sum total of the issues here and people need to snap out of this lazy complacency that the sum total of the threat is the death of old people who are in ill health. The sad thing about covid is that if it was known to affect kids worst you can bet that people would be taking it a lot lot more seriously even if the death toll was no different than it is now. Because people have been fooled into thinking it’s just the elderly no-one gives a toss. |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 15, 2020 21:03:45 GMT
Exactly 365, 'let's have a rave because I won't die from it' there has been utter selfishness from some people.
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 15, 2020 21:09:12 GMT
You said "I’d have thought anyone who looked at the data worldwide wouldn’t be fearful at all." Regardless of whether people are fearful for their own personal health (I'm fairly relaxed about my own health, but I'm fortunate that I don't believe I'm currently particularly vulnerable) most people would know people who are either vulnerable or potentially could be vulnerable. If you don't fear for them, then does that says something about your compassion (or lack of) for others? I'm not saying that everything should be locked tight, as I believe that economically we need to strike a sensible balance whilst maintaining caution and high standards of safety. This is easier said than done and I have seen far too often a large number of people everywhere that simply don't give a toss about protecting themselves or those around them. What I definitely do strongly believe is that people shouldn't treat it lightly, just because supposedly the risk to under 80's is minimal. But what are you saying exactly is a minimal risk? Dying? Because I certainly wouldn't want myself or anyone I know to be potentially hospitalised over anything, regardless of whether it ended up killing them or not. It’s not just about dying - long covid is a known issue in that it exists and has 4 forms but we still don’t know that much about it, certainly not enough to just go by the death toll as the ultimate arbiter of what covid does to the system. There was also a report the other on the BBC site about visible changes to the lungs of covid survivors. Dying is not the sum total of the issues here and people need to snap out of this lazy complacency that the sum total of the threat is the death of old people who are in ill health. The sad thing about covid is that if it was known to affect kids worst you can bet that people would be taking it a lot lot more seriously even if the death toll was no different than it is now. Because people have been fooled into thinking it’s just the elderly no-one gives a toss. We’ve been fooled into thinking what exactly? Aren’t you quoting a BBC Article and items of discussion in all of the main news outlets? It’s most likely true, but I think people are suspicious of some of the hysteria and moral panic. Also things like Covid wardens, billboards threatening you with fines etc and a lot of civil liberties being taken away over night. I don’t buy into the conspiracy theories but I do think removals of civil freedoms need to be carefully considered - and crucially, when do we get them back, in full, exactly? I broadly agree with the idea that Covid isn’t “a cold” but if you think reading the BBC is giving you some sort of high ground on perspective on this and the masses are “being fooled”....generally historically state broadcasters have tended to be the source of fooling more often than not! And media in general tend to overhype everything. Well, everywhere else of course, not in our country and in our time, of course! |
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Post by Officer Barbrady on Dec 15, 2020 21:12:07 GMT
I think you're misunderstanding the point. No one is saying don't talk about it. They're saying be careful what you say. To correct your analogy, it wouldn't be not mentioning alcohol, it would be more like 'saying that alcohol is harmless would upset those whose relatives have died from alcoholism,' which is plainly a reasonable statement. But nobody said it was harmless, merely the chances of dieing are tiny which is correct.......or do we all have stick by the same narrative ? Oi mate, if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. 60 thousand dead of it in 10 months. Stop being a cock and show some respect would you? Yours sincerely, the NHS |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 15, 2020 21:33:27 GMT
Exactly, it's not about letting those that would be unlikely to die from it just get on with their lives as normal without worrying about it. The more people that have it, badly affected or not, then the more vulnerable people will contract it and the more overwhelmed our health service would become. Lack of understanding of this is just ignorance and the fact that so many people in this country take it lightly is the reason we will be under restrictions for a lot longer yet, sadly. q I didn’t say anything about that. I said: - our country mishandled the pandemic - The risk of death if you’re under 80 or seriously unwell Is minimal. People haven’t listened to what I said. It set off some sort of red flag. Interestingly of the 50,335 deaths that occurred in March to June 2020 involving COVID-19 in England and Wales on the death certificate, only 4,476 had no underlying health conditions. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 21:33:54 GMT
It’s not just about dying - long covid is a known issue in that it exists and has 4 forms but we still don’t know that much about it, certainly not enough to just go by the death toll as the ultimate arbiter of what covid does to the system. There was also a report the other on the BBC site about visible changes to the lungs of covid survivors. Dying is not the sum total of the issues here and people need to snap out of this lazy complacency that the sum total of the threat is the death of old people who are in ill health. The sad thing about covid is that if it was known to affect kids worst you can bet that people would be taking it a lot lot more seriously even if the death toll was no different than it is now. Because people have been fooled into thinking it’s just the elderly no-one gives a toss. We’ve been fooled into thinking what exactly? Aren’t you quoting a BBC Article and items of discussion in all of the main news outlets? It’s most likely true, but I think people are suspicious of some of the hysteria and moral panic. Also things like Covid wardens, billboards threatening you with fines etc and a lot of civil liberties being taken away over night. I don’t buy into the conspiracy theories but I do think removals of civil freedoms need to be carefully considered - and crucially, when do we get them back, in full, exactly? I broadly agree with the idea that Covid isn’t “a cold” but if you think reading the BBC is giving you some sort of high ground on perspective on this and the masses are “being fooled”....generally historically state broadcasters have tended to be the source of fooling more often than not! And media in general tend to overhype everything. Well, everywhere else of course, not in our country and in our time, of course! You complain of your civil liberties being taken away, but you are happy for anyone over 80 to be let to die? |
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pirate
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Post by pirate on Dec 15, 2020 21:35:21 GMT
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 15, 2020 21:39:19 GMT
We’ve been fooled into thinking what exactly? Aren’t you quoting a BBC Article and items of discussion in all of the main news outlets? It’s most likely true, but I think people are suspicious of some of the hysteria and moral panic. Also things like Covid wardens, billboards threatening you with fines etc and a lot of civil liberties being taken away over night. I don’t buy into the conspiracy theories but I do think removals of civil freedoms need to be carefully considered - and crucially, when do we get them back, in full, exactly? I broadly agree with the idea that Covid isn’t “a cold” but if you think reading the BBC is giving you some sort of high ground on perspective on this and the masses are “being fooled”....generally historically state broadcasters have tended to be the source of fooling more often than not! And media in general tend to overhype everything. Well, everywhere else of course, not in our country and in our time, of course! You complain of your civil liberties being taken away, but you are happy for anyone over 80 to be let to die? Think about that question and you’ll find the root of all conspiracies. |
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 15, 2020 21:40:02 GMT
I don't get the point of a "list" like this,where's the list that sets out the Collateral damage if Covid had been allowed to rip through the Country,all a bit pointless |
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 15, 2020 21:48:20 GMT
Plus 400BN fiscal spending, equating to 3x the NHS budget plus change. 875BN quantitive easing, in a monetary backdrop where banks are not destroying M0 and therefore inflation is almost guaranteed. This all has to be balanced but the fact of it is, the public don’t even understand what QE is. The cost is very, very high. So are wars. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have acted, but it all needs to be in context. Fine if you’re on an inflation linked salary and pension. Which includes all MPs and civil servants coincidentally! |
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Post by gulfofaden on Dec 15, 2020 21:54:25 GMT
I don't get the point of a "list" like this,where's the list that sets out the Collateral damage if Covid had been allowed to rip through the Country,all a bit pointless Obviously I would NEVER condone or support this idea but a large loss of post 70 people is pretty good in terms of government spending. The elderly cost a lot in healthcare and services and crucially are the biggest welfare recipients by an absolute mile. Those of working age as we’ve seen, rarely need hospital treatment but there would be a cost to that, working disruption etc. I would be surprised if it was anywhere near as much as lockdown costs. However, morally this isn’t acceptable. What’s the point of anything if it isn’t to keep our loved ones? |
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Post by trevorgas on Dec 15, 2020 22:03:34 GMT
I don't get the point of a "list" like this,where's the list that sets out the Collateral damage if Covid had been allowed to rip through the Country,all a bit pointless Obviously I would NEVER condone or support this idea but a large loss of post 70 people is pretty good in terms of government spending. The elderly cost a lot in healthcare and services and crucially are the biggest welfare recipients by an absolute mile. Those of working age as we’ve seen, rarely need hospital treatment but there would be a cost to that, working disruption etc. I would be surprised if it was anywhere near as much as lockdown costs. However, morally this isn’t acceptable. What’s the point of anything if it isn’t to keep our loved ones? Dont you think complete collapse of the NHS would be catastrophic for the Country and economy! ! |
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Post by althepirate on Dec 15, 2020 22:08:50 GMT
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