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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 12:27:38 GMT
Don't these two rather contradict each other??
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Post by joebananas67 on Oct 7, 2015 12:29:13 GMT
There is a difference also between good and people giving him the benefit of the doubt because he is a bristolian.
Apart from one spell in L1 with us when Lambert was on fire Lines has been nothing but ordinary. He has never controlled a midfield and is incapable of doing so. He offers us nothing as an attacking threat (assists and goals) and defensively he is woeful. Can't tackle, won't header, won't chase back etc etc.
He is a luxury player. That is my view and nothing I have seen since his return has changed and DC obviously thought the same by dropping him.
With regards my point about him needing another club. If he couldn't get a game last night it would have seriously sent out a message from DC that he wasn't in his plans. The fact that he has not come on as sub in either of the League games says enough for me.
Expect his form to change next March when he is looking for a new contract.
Surely those two views contradict each other? Either he's a luxary player who can't tackle or he's just going though the motions until he needs another contract? Personally I've never seen Lines as an hard tackling midfielder and you do wonder if DC made a mistake by signing him, if that's what was required this season. having said that to beat one of the top teams last night 2-0 was impressive stuff. I agree though that Lines & Parkes will be back on the bench for Mansfield. [ How is it a contradiction. Lines will suddenly decide to put in a shift when a new contract is required. He is a luxury player because he does what he wants and doesn't put in a shift that his fellow team do, At this level you neex all 11 putting in a shift
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2015 12:32:49 GMT
Surely those two views contradict each other? Either he's a luxary player who can't tackle or he's just going though the motions until he needs another contract? Personally I've never seen Lines as an hard tackling midfielder and you do wonder if DC made a mistake by signing him, if that's what was required this season. having said that to beat one of the top teams last night 2-0 was impressive stuff. I agree though that Lines & Parkes will be back on the bench for Mansfield. [ How is it a contradiction. As ff he's a luxary player with nothing to offer then surely it won't matter come March as he'll still be the same player if, however, he's a decent midfielder who was just going though the motions before being dropped then he will be able to step up a gear or two come March but hopefully before that now he's had the wake up call?
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Post by rambo on Oct 7, 2015 12:39:48 GMT
Don't these two rather contradict each other?? I don't think so, no. Between Lines and Sinclair, we should be looking to control the midfield, create attacks and protect the defence. That is the goal for any midfield in every match. Lines going forward was excellent. Sinclair going forward was ok. So attacking wise, fine. Did well. Control the midfield we did not. Lines let too many opposing players drift past him as if he wasn't there, he won very few headers (Sinclair far outnumbered him here) and gaps appeared far too often. We were overran at times, as we often have been with him in the side. Defensively, Sinclair was doing all the leg work as per. I would add here that, yes, it is more suited to Sincs game as attacking is to Lines. But it doesn't mean he shouldn't be defending. Every time they ran near Lines, I had no faith he would make a tackle. I don't expect him to turn into a hard tackling DCM, but in this league you need to be able to at least protect your back 4. For me, the above sums up Lines. He hasn't ever changed, it's not his fault and it's why he splits opinions because some will say he's in here to attack not defend, others will call him a luxury player. I don't think it is that black or white. We need to appreciate that what he offers going forward, we have to concede the other elements of midfield. As we did last night. This will work against some opponents, as it did last year in almost every game as we were playing against worse players. So no, it's its contradictory, as I felt that last night for all his good work going forward, it exposed us to a dangerous looking Wycombe side. It's may seem a bit of an odd point to be making having won and kept a clean sheet! But both teams really should've scored 4 or 5 last night.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 12:53:24 GMT
Lines was incredible last year. Scored v fgr, set up a few for others. I am firmly of the belief we would be playing Rochester athletic Dynamo or whoever this year without his talismanic performances. He was all over the park at Wembley, he gives you quality when you need it.
He's lost a bit of form is all.
Those that hate on him in my humble are the same that berated players like Justin Skinner and want 11 David Battys - "if he don't run around a lot he ain't no good"
Clarkson is another player that was picked on because he didn't chase lost causes.
I agree he could get stuck in more, he's not without fault, but he does have a dimension to his play others don't and this dimension isn't running about. It's vision, experience and passing. He might give little for 80 mins other than sideways passes and then set up a goal on a plate to a striker. His ball last night was excellent.
He nips around, looks for the pass and lays off. In a way it's similar to scholes role for United. He never got stuck in and tended to get sent off if he did.
The issue is you need a Roy Keane with him. Stuart Campbell was an excellent partner.
Lines wil come good at points in this season. As I say, form has dropped a little and rightly dropped but all this "he's poor and was never no good" defies belief. Best player on pitch at Wembley and will prove too good for this league at times.
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Post by joebananas67 on Oct 7, 2015 13:17:57 GMT
Lines was incredible last year. Scored v fgr, set up a few for others. I am firmly of the belief we would be playing Rochester athletic Dynamo or whoever this year without his talismanic performances. He was all over the park at Wembley, he gives you quality when you need it. He's lost a bit of form is all. Those that hate on him in my humble are the same that berated players like Justin Skinner and want 11 David Battys - "if he don't run around a lot he ain't no good" Clarkson is another player that was picked on because he didn't chase lost causes. I agree he could get stuck in more, he's not without fault, but he does have a dimension to his play others don't and this dimension isn't running about. It's vision, experience and passing. He might give little for 80 mins other than sideways passes and then set up a goal on a plate to a striker. His ball last night was excellent. He nips around, looks for the pass and lays off. In a way it's similar to scholes role for United. He never got stuck in and tended to get sent off if he did. The issue is you need a Roy Keane with him. Stuart Campbell was an excellent partner. Lines wil come good at points in this season. As I say, form has dropped a little and rightly dropped but all this "he's poor and was never no good" defies belief. Best player on pitch at Wembley and will prove too good for this league at times. I will ask the question again. When was he any good? With Sinclair and Mansell you have to ask - when were they bad!!
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 7, 2015 14:03:13 GMT
Lines was incredible last year. Scored v fgr, set up a few for others. I am firmly of the belief we would be playing Rochester athletic Dynamo or whoever this year without his talismanic performances. He was all over the park at Wembley, he gives you quality when you need it. He's lost a bit of form is all. Those that hate on him in my humble are the same that berated players like Justin Skinner and want 11 David Battys - "if he don't run around a lot he ain't no good" Clarkson is another player that was picked on because he didn't chase lost causes. I agree he could get stuck in more, he's not without fault, but he does have a dimension to his play others don't and this dimension isn't running about. It's vision, experience and passing. He might give little for 80 mins other than sideways passes and then set up a goal on a plate to a striker. His ball last night was excellent. He nips around, looks for the pass and lays off. In a way it's similar to scholes role for United. He never got stuck in and tended to get sent off if he did. The issue is you need a Roy Keane with him. Stuart Campbell was an excellent partner. Lines wil come good at points in this season. As I say, form has dropped a little and rightly dropped but all this "he's poor and was never no good" defies belief. Best player on pitch at Wembley and will prove too good for this league at times. I was really with you there then I remembered Clarkson was sh** so lost interest. Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 15:11:57 GMT
Lines was incredible last year. Scored v fgr, set up a few for others. I am firmly of the belief we would be playing Rochester athletic Dynamo or whoever this year without his talismanic performances. He was all over the park at Wembley, he gives you quality when you need it. He's lost a bit of form is all. Those that hate on him in my humble are the same that berated players like Justin Skinner and want 11 David Battys - "if he don't run around a lot he ain't no good" Clarkson is another player that was picked on because he didn't chase lost causes. I agree he could get stuck in more, he's not without fault, but he does have a dimension to his play others don't and this dimension isn't running about. It's vision, experience and passing. He might give little for 80 mins other than sideways passes and then set up a goal on a plate to a striker. His ball last night was excellent. He nips around, looks for the pass and lays off. In a way it's similar to scholes role for United. He never got stuck in and tended to get sent off if he did. The issue is you need a Roy Keane with him. Stuart Campbell was an excellent partner. Lines wil come good at points in this season. As I say, form has dropped a little and rightly dropped but all this "he's poor and was never no good" defies belief. Best player on pitch at Wembley and will prove too good for this league at times. Absolute spot on! Really annoys me how if you don't charge around in midfield you aren't very good.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 15:12:16 GMT
Lines was incredible last year. Scored v fgr, set up a few for others. I am firmly of the belief we would be playing Rochester athletic Dynamo or whoever this year without his talismanic performances. He was all over the park at Wembley, he gives you quality when you need it. He's lost a bit of form is all. Those that hate on him in my humble are the same that berated players like Justin Skinner and want 11 David Battys - "if he don't run around a lot he ain't no good" Clarkson is another player that was picked on because he didn't chase lost causes. I agree he could get stuck in more, he's not without fault, but he does have a dimension to his play others don't and this dimension isn't running about. It's vision, experience and passing. He might give little for 80 mins other than sideways passes and then set up a goal on a plate to a striker. His ball last night was excellent. He nips around, looks for the pass and lays off. In a way it's similar to scholes role for United. He never got stuck in and tended to get sent off if he did. The issue is you need a Roy Keane with him. Stuart Campbell was an excellent partner. Lines wil come good at points in this season. As I say, form has dropped a little and rightly dropped but all this "he's poor and was never no good" defies belief. Best player on pitch at Wembley and will prove too good for this league at times. I was really with you there then I remembered Clarkson was sh** so lost interest. Sorry. Clarkson wasn't sh1t.
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Post by newmarketgas on Oct 7, 2015 15:23:48 GMT
Clarkson was quality but played in the wrong position.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 15:26:24 GMT
One thing about last night,they played with three in the middle so we were two against three and it showed at times. We dominated the midfield in some games when we had three in the middle
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 15:27:07 GMT
Very good footballer, just used incorrectly and generally had sh1t players around him.
In a good team he would have created stacks at this level.
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Post by axegas on Oct 7, 2015 15:31:42 GMT
Lines was incredible last year. Scored v fgr, set up a few for others. I am firmly of the belief we would be playing Rochester athletic Dynamo or whoever this year without his talismanic performances. He was all over the park at Wembley, he gives you quality when you need it. He's lost a bit of form is all. Those that hate on him in my humble are the same that berated players like Justin Skinner and want 11 David Battys - "if he don't run around a lot he ain't no good" Clarkson is another player that was picked on because he didn't chase lost causes. I agree he could get stuck in more, he's not without fault, but he does have a dimension to his play others don't and this dimension isn't running about. It's vision, experience and passing. He might give little for 80 mins other than sideways passes and then set up a goal on a plate to a striker. His ball last night was excellent. He nips around, looks for the pass and lays off. In a way it's similar to scholes role for United. He never got stuck in and tended to get sent off if he did. The issue is you need a Roy Keane with him. Stuart Campbell was an excellent partner. Lines wil come good at points in this season. As I say, form has dropped a little and rightly dropped but all this "he's poor and was never no good" defies belief. Best player on pitch at Wembley and will prove too good for this league at times. I was really with you there then I remembered Clarkson was sh** so lost interest. Sorry. Clarkson has actually done very well in Dundee since he left us, was on big wages though with us
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2015 15:34:18 GMT
Lines was incredible last year. Scored v fgr, set up a few for others. I am firmly of the belief we would be playing Rochester athletic Dynamo or whoever this year without his talismanic performances. He was all over the park at Wembley, he gives you quality when you need it. He's lost a bit of form is all. Those that hate on him in my humble are the same that berated players like Justin Skinner and want 11 David Battys - "if he don't run around a lot he ain't no good" Clarkson is another player that was picked on because he didn't chase lost causes. I agree he could get stuck in more, he's not without fault, but he does have a dimension to his play others don't and this dimension isn't running about. It's vision, experience and passing. He might give little for 80 mins other than sideways passes and then set up a goal on a plate to a striker. His ball last night was excellent. He nips around, looks for the pass and lays off. In a way it's similar to scholes role for United. He never got stuck in and tended to get sent off if he did. The issue is you need a Roy Keane with him. Stuart Campbell was an excellent partner. Lines wil come good at points in this season. As I say, form has dropped a little and rightly dropped but all this "he's poor and was never no good" defies belief. Best player on pitch at Wembley and will prove too good for this league at times. I will ask the question again. When was he any good? With Sinclair and Mansell you have to ask - when were they bad!! Think we were honeslty going nowhere with Sinclair & Mansell before the former was injured, we had come hard to beat but the football was boring last season with those two in the middle, Lines arrival ignited our fine end to the season and I sense Sinclair would have struggled to dislodge Lines & Mansell if he had recovered.
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Post by stapletongas on Oct 7, 2015 15:56:44 GMT
What works in one game of football isn't always going to work in the next. It's not a question of who is best and who is worse.
What DC has assembled though is a choice of centre mids that gives him options depending on what he wants in the middle of the pitch either for a particular match, or to make changes to a game.
Options are good and we have those options.
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Post by joebananas67 on Oct 7, 2015 15:59:03 GMT
I will ask the question again. When was he any good? With Sinclair and Mansell you have to ask - when were they bad!! Think we were honeslty going nowhere with Sinclair & Mansell before the former was injured, we had come hard to beat but the football was boring last season with those two in the middle, Lines arrival ignited our fine end to the season and I sense Sinclair would have struggled to dislodge Lines & Mansell if he had recovered. Absolute tosh.
We were unbeaten in 17 bloody games when Lines arrived and he wouldn't even have been on the radar if Sinclair had stayed injury free.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 16:03:35 GMT
I was really with you there then I remembered Clarkson was sh** so lost interest. Sorry. Clarkson has actually done very well in Dundee since he left us, was on big wages though with us He hasn't particularly, scored 8 in 8 at the start of last season (well documented) but then only 1 goal between that spell and the end of the season. Was released in June and now 0 goals in 4 games for Motherwell. That's not to suggest he couldn't have done better with us if he was played in the right position and with the right supporting striker.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2015 19:34:35 GMT
Think we were honeslty going nowhere with Sinclair & Mansell before the former was injured, we had come hard to beat but the football was boring last season with those two in the middle, Lines arrival ignited our fine end to the season and I sense Sinclair would have struggled to dislodge Lines & Mansell if he had recovered. Absolute tosh.
We were unbeaten in 17 bloody games when Lines arrived and he wouldn't even have been on the radar if Sinclair had stayed injury free.
I think you've overlooked we lost to Eastleigh in the game before he arrived? Before that we won something like just league 2 games by 2 or more goals but with Lines in the team we won around half the dozen or so games he played by 2 or more goals. If Puddy hadn't dropped the ball at Dover we would have achieved straight promotion which looked well beyond us when we lost to Eastleigh.
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Post by joebananas67 on Oct 7, 2015 19:56:19 GMT
Absolute tosh.
We were unbeaten in 17 bloody games when Lines arrived and he wouldn't even have been on the radar if Sinclair had stayed injury free.
I think you've overlooked we lost to Eastleigh in the game before he arrived? Before that we won something like just league 2 games by 2 or more goals but with Lines in the team we won around half the dozen or so games he played by 2 or more goals. If Puddy hadn't dropped the ball at Dover we would have achieved straight promotion which looked well beyond us when we lost to Eastleigh. And his total assists in that time was how many? You will be surprisingly shocked how many assists he was reaponsible for,
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Post by pirateman on Oct 7, 2015 19:57:24 GMT
Boring Joe, boring, change the record for gawd's sake.
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