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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 7, 2015 20:19:59 GMT
Very good footballer, just used incorrectly and generally had sh1t players around him. In a good team he would have created stacks at this level. Which things in particular impressed you about Clarkson? His ability to be blowing out of his arse after 60 mins having contributed very little? Doing well at Dundee does not a good player make. I didn't see a single decent thing in Clarkson I'm afraid. Still, opinions eh? Glad you enjoyed him.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 20:26:08 GMT
I think you've overlooked we lost to Eastleigh in the game before he arrived? Before that we won something like just league 2 games by 2 or more goals but with Lines in the team we won around half the dozen or so games he played by 2 or more goals. If Puddy hadn't dropped the ball at Dover we would have achieved straight promotion which looked well beyond us when we lost to Eastleigh. And his total assists in that time was how many? You will be surprisingly shocked how many assists he was reaponsible for, While we are on stats, tell me, how many times did lines lose possession compared to others? That's a more important stat than assists or tackles for a central midfielder. Alex Ferguson once said about xavi "he's never lost the ball in his life" You can look at stats all you want, assists aren't the sole indicator of midfield quality. It's not always "pass to the striker and score" It could often be "hold the ball, pulled opposition cm out creating a hole, pass to lb who then puts ball into newly created space where no 10 has found new accommodation, leading to a ball to wing where the opposition rb has left a hole because he rushed into hole created by lines in the first place to cover no 10, winger puts ball in and no9 scores" Or more simply " lines threads ball to winger who cuts inside and lays off to striker who shoots and another player bangs in the rebound" Deeper lying midfielders like lines are less likely to get assists than a winger or a Sinclair type. That said, lines got one last night and remember him setting up Matt Taylor at least twice last term. On clarkson note, another player with a BRAIN who retained the ball. Didn't skin players or run around much, so those viewing football at a more superficial level who need to see overt positive actions and don't get subtlety won't see it. Making 10 complete, simple passes does more than losing the ball 3/10 and doing something special 1/10, although it's tempting to view the riskier player as better as you don't really get excited by the midfield metronome. Glen McGrath hit top of off stick 6/6. Others bowled faster, got more out of the wicket etc but consistency means a lot. I can't remember hearing a groan as lines (or clarkson) lost us possession cheaply. This is my chief concern with Ollie Clarke as he does tend to lose it often, although he does beat a man and put more tackles in than lines
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 20:28:48 GMT
Clarkson was too good for us.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 7, 2015 20:35:08 GMT
Clarkson was too good for us. Hahaha.
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 7, 2015 20:43:08 GMT
And his total assists in that time was how many? You will be surprisingly shocked how many assists he was reaponsible for, On clarkson note, another player with a BRAIN who retained the ball. Didn't skin players or run around much, so those viewing football at a more superficial level who need to see overt positive actions and don't get subtlety won't see it. I understand subtlety thanks. You are right, he didn't skin anyone, and he didn't run around much. Given this how come he rarely lasted a full match? He was physically out of shape. He couldn't hold down a starting role in his preferred position and didn't score many. As a reportedly high earner I expected more from him. He may have had a brain but he didn't have the body to match.
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Post by axegas on Oct 7, 2015 20:49:03 GMT
On clarkson note, another player with a BRAIN who retained the ball. Didn't skin players or run around much, so those viewing football at a more superficial level who need to see overt positive actions and don't get subtlety won't see it. I understand subtlety thanks. You are right, he didn't skin anyone, and he didn't run around much. Given this how come he rarely lasted a full match? He was physically out of shape. He couldn't hold down a starting role in his preferred position and didn't score many. As a reportedly high earner I expected more from him. He may have had a brain but he didn't have the body to match. Don't want to be too harsh but perhaps like jermaine Easter
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 7, 2015 20:51:42 GMT
I understand subtlety thanks. You are right, he didn't skin anyone, and he didn't run around much. Given this how come he rarely lasted a full match? He was physically out of shape. He couldn't hold down a starting role in his preferred position and didn't score many. As a reportedly high earner I expected more from him. He may have had a brain but he didn't have the body to match. Don't want to be too harsh but perhaps like jermaine Easter I think that's a fair shout, but Easter has been injured and seeems to be finally hitting some form and is starting to show his class.
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Post by axegas on Oct 7, 2015 20:53:45 GMT
Don't want to be too harsh but perhaps like jermaine Easter I think that's a fair shout, but Easter has been injured and seeems to be finally hitting some form and is starting to show his class. Yeah I'd agree Easter just has that little bit of class and has been scoring lately which is a BIG positive
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Post by Hugo the Elder on Oct 7, 2015 20:55:41 GMT
I think that's a fair shout, but Easter has been injured and seeems to be finally hitting some form and is starting to show his class. Yeah I'd agree Easter just has that little bit of class and has been scoring lately which is a BIG positive Wally Walters was another. His body was totally shot but he could still take up positions and make passes no one else in the team could even at a jog.
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Post by Topper Gas on Oct 7, 2015 21:29:23 GMT
I think you've overlooked we lost to Eastleigh in the game before he arrived? Before that we won something like just league 2 games by 2 or more goals but with Lines in the team we won around half the dozen or so games he played by 2 or more goals. If Puddy hadn't dropped the ball at Dover we would have achieved straight promotion which looked well beyond us when we lost to Eastleigh. And his total assists in that time was how many? You will be surprisingly shocked how many assists he was reaponsible for, Well if it wasn't down to Lines turning us from a team that couldn't score to a free scoring one who was it, as apart from him it was virtually the same squad? You seem to be the one poster on here who can't accept Lines made a big impact last season, did you actually see many games last season as you rarely posted on the forum?
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Post by Strange Gas on Oct 7, 2015 22:26:55 GMT
Don't want to be too harsh but perhaps like jermaine Easter I think that's a fair shout, but Easter has been injured and seeems to be finally hitting some form and is starting to show his class. I'd say true last season, but looking like he's getting fit this. Long way to go I admit, but on right path from what we've seen. Has a brain and good touch so when fit could be dynamite. Interesting to see blisset back fighting for a place too as he is similar if a bit more raw Fitness is a massive differentiator at this level and looks like DC is working on that
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Post by joebananas67 on Oct 7, 2015 22:28:20 GMT
And his total assists in that time was how many? You will be surprisingly shocked how many assists he was reaponsible for, Well if it wasn't down to Lines turning us from a team that couldn't score to a free scoring one who was it, as apart from him it was virtually the same squad? You seem to be the one poster on here who can't accept Lines made a big impact last season, did you actually see many games last season as you rarely posted on the forum? It isnt rocket science. Look at the teams we bloody played. My granny could have scored against most of them and Lines made no bigger contribution than anyone else. In fact if you really want to look at the goals we scored the majority came down the left hand side from Brown and Mionkhouse. In 11 games we scored 27 goals, of those 27, 15 came in three games against three really sh** sides. So we scored 12 in the remaining 8. No more than we had been scoring all season. The reason i wont give Lines anymore credit than anyone else is because quite simply i think he is over-rated. But best of all it doesn't matter what i think, it is what DC thinks that matters and he has dropped the useless git and we are winning and scoring freely and guess what, i am not in the slightest bit surprised. This 'love in' with Lines amuses me as the opposition see him as our weakness but our own fans are too blind to see it. When CL commands a midfield week in week out and stands out from the rest then he will get praise from me. He is not capable of either so dont hold your breathe. And i am not the only one who thinks it.
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Post by mjhgas on Oct 7, 2015 22:48:01 GMT
Clarkson was too good for us. Hahaha. Saved me writing it!!!! Too good for us includes Randall, Willlams, Barrett, Mabbutt, Martyn, Stewart, Hayles, Roberts, Lambert to name a few!
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Post by Dirt Dogg on Oct 7, 2015 23:01:05 GMT
Clarkson was too good for us. My ex-girlfriend thought she was too good for me too. She's now married to a successful Docter so I guess she was right..
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Post by onion on Oct 7, 2015 23:48:33 GMT
Well if it wasn't down to Lines turning us from a team that couldn't score to a free scoring one who was it, as apart from him it was virtually the same squad? You seem to be the one poster on here who can't accept Lines made a big impact last season, did you actually see many games last season as you rarely posted on the forum? It isnt rocket science. Look at the teams we bloody played. My granny could have scored against most of them and Lines made no bigger contribution than anyone else. In fact if you really want to look at the goals we scored the majority came down the left hand side from Brown and Mionkhouse. In 11 games we scored 27 goals, of those 27, 15 came in three games against three really sh** sides. So we scored 12 in the remaining 8. No more than we had been scoring all season. The reason i wont give Lines anymore credit than anyone else is because quite simply i think he is over-rated. But best of all it doesn't matter what i think, it is what DC thinks that matters and he has dropped the useless git and we are winning and scoring freely and guess what, i am not in the slightest bit surprised. This 'love in' with Lines amuses me as the opposition see him as our weakness but our own fans are too blind to see it. When CL commands a midfield week in week out and stands out from the rest then he will get praise from me. He is not capable of either so dont hold your breathe. And i am not the only one who thinks it.
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Post by WeAreTheGas on Oct 8, 2015 7:21:29 GMT
And his total assists in that time was how many? You will be surprisingly shocked how many assists he was reaponsible for, While we are on stats, tell me, how many times did lines lose possession compared to others?
That's a more important stat than assists or tackles for a central midfielder.
Alex Ferguson once said about xavi "he's never lost the ball in his life"You can look at stats all you want, assists aren't the sole indicator of midfield quality. It's not always "pass to the striker and score" It could often be "hold the ball, pulled opposition cm out creating a hole, pass to lb who then puts ball into newly created space where no 10 has found new accommodation, leading to a ball to wing where the opposition rb has left a hole because he rushed into hole created by lines in the first place to cover no 10, winger puts ball in and no9 scores" Or more simply " lines threads ball to winger who cuts inside and lays off to striker who shoots and another player bangs in the rebound" Deeper lying midfielders like lines are less likely to get assists than a winger or a Sinclair type. That said, lines got one last night and remember him setting up Matt Taylor at least twice last term. On clarkson note, another player with a BRAIN who retained the ball. Didn't skin players or run around much, so those viewing football at a more superficial level who need to see overt positive actions and don't get subtlety won't see it. Making 10 complete, simple passes does more than losing the ball 3/10 and doing something special 1/10, although it's tempting to view the riskier player as better as you don't really get excited by the midfield metronome. Glen McGrath hit top of off stick 6/6. Others bowled faster, got more out of the wicket etc but consistency means a lot. I can't remember hearing a groan as lines (or clarkson) lost us possession cheaply. This is my chief concern with Ollie Clarke as he does tend to lose it often, although he does beat a man and put more tackles in than lines That depends on what other players are in the midfield, IMO. You use Xavi as an example, but Xavi could concentrate on keeping possession and little else, as he always played in a 3 man midfield that usually had Busquets screening in front of the back four and doing the tackling. In a 4-4-2 without a dedicated CDM (which Sinclair obviously isn't) you need both of the CM's to be tackling and attempting to break up play IMO, or else you get overrun. If we played with a 3 man midfield with Lines ahead of Sinclair and Mansell, I'd agree the emphasis would be more on the other parts of Lines' game. But I think in a 4-4-2 you need both midfielders to contribute to both phases of play. Agree with the rest of your post though and it's clear that Lines has more talent than the majority (all?) of our squad.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 7:52:41 GMT
This thread is getting a little silly now.
With the exception of Kieran, does anyone else genuinely feel Lines is not very good???
Genuinely intrigued to know as for me, he is one of our best players and for me he completely changed last season for us. When he came in we were IMO starting to look a little tired and out of ideas, he added a real sprinkle of class and we didn't look back.
Forest Green away in the play offs was 1 I remember specifically, he completely ran the game from start to finish. Didn't charge around the pitch making tackles, but just calmly controlled possession for our entire team. Always in space, always wanting the ball and never losing the ball. Exactly what you want from a midfielder.
But all of the above is just my opinion (well, and that of the 3 lads I go with), so I am genuinely intrigued to know what everybody else thinks? Is he the touch of quality in the middle as I see it? Or is he the useless luxury player as Kieron does?
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Post by joebananas67 on Oct 8, 2015 8:09:29 GMT
While we are on stats, tell me, how many times did lines lose possession compared to others?
That's a more important stat than assists or tackles for a central midfielder.
Alex Ferguson once said about xavi "he's never lost the ball in his life"You can look at stats all you want, assists aren't the sole indicator of midfield quality. It's not always "pass to the striker and score" It could often be "hold the ball, pulled opposition cm out creating a hole, pass to lb who then puts ball into newly created space where no 10 has found new accommodation, leading to a ball to wing where the opposition rb has left a hole because he rushed into hole created by lines in the first place to cover no 10, winger puts ball in and no9 scores" Or more simply " lines threads ball to winger who cuts inside and lays off to striker who shoots and another player bangs in the rebound" Deeper lying midfielders like lines are less likely to get assists than a winger or a Sinclair type. That said, lines got one last night and remember him setting up Matt Taylor at least twice last term. On clarkson note, another player with a BRAIN who retained the ball. Didn't skin players or run around much, so those viewing football at a more superficial level who need to see overt positive actions and don't get subtlety won't see it. Making 10 complete, simple passes does more than losing the ball 3/10 and doing something special 1/10, although it's tempting to view the riskier player as better as you don't really get excited by the midfield metronome. Glen McGrath hit top of off stick 6/6. Others bowled faster, got more out of the wicket etc but consistency means a lot. I can't remember hearing a groan as lines (or clarkson) lost us possession cheaply. This is my chief concern with Ollie Clarke as he does tend to lose it often, although he does beat a man and put more tackles in than lines That depends on what other players are in the midfield, IMO. You use Xavi as an example, but Xavi could concentrate on keeping possession and little else, as he always played in a 3 man midfield that usually had Busquets screening in front of the back four and doing the tackling. In a 4-4-2 without a dedicated CDM (which Sinclair obviously isn't) you need both of the CM's to be tackling and attempting to break up play IMO, or else you get overrun. If we played with a 3 man midfield with Lines ahead of Sinclair and Mansell, I'd agree the emphasis would be more on the other parts of Lines' game. But I think in a 4-4-2 you need both midfielders to contribute to both phases of play. Agree with the rest of your post though and it's clear that Lines has more talent than the majority (all?) of our squad. I would completely agree with Lines playing ahead of Sinclair and Mansell if he were to make the surging runs that Bodin makes but he doean't. In fact, and here is the biggest dilemma of all, he has actually said only a fortnight ago that HE likes to play deeper. That doesnt work unless you are willing to be a box to box midfielder, which he isn't. If you are pkaying that deep you also need to be able to defend, which he doesn't. So by being where he is on the pitch he is not creative and also offers the defence no cover. With that in mind he doesn't offer his teammates at either end of the pitch any assistance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 8:15:09 GMT
Ignore my last post all, have now created separate thread to better gauge opinion.
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Post by knowall on Oct 8, 2015 8:16:58 GMT
Well if it wasn't down to Lines turning us from a team that couldn't score to a free scoring one who was it, as apart from him it was virtually the same squad? You seem to be the one poster on here who can't accept Lines made a big impact last season, did you actually see many games last season as you rarely posted on the forum? It isnt rocket science. Look at the teams we bloody played. My granny could have scored against most of them and Lines made no bigger contribution than anyone else. In fact if you really want to look at the goals we scored the majority came down the left hand side from Brown and Mionkhouse. In 11 games we scored 27 goals, of those 27, 15 came in three games against three really sh** sides. So we scored 12 in the remaining 8. No more than we had been scoring all season. The reason i wont give Lines anymore credit than anyone else is because quite simply i think he is over-rated. But best of all it doesn't matter what i think, it is what DC thinks that matters and he has dropped the useless git and we are winning and scoring freely and guess what, i am not in the slightest bit surprised. This 'love in' with Lines amuses me as the opposition see him as our weakness but our own fans are too blind to see it. When CL commands a midfield week in week out and stands out from the rest then he will get praise from me. He is not capable of either so dont hold your breathe. And i am not the only one who thinks it. Thankfully you are right 'it does not matter what you think'.
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